Places to see in Indian Country

[Kirk Gittings]

No doubt about that. The myth of the peaceful farmers is long gone.

[Drew Wiley]

I too agree with that. Often right at the mouths of the canyons there are specific local
symbols which remind me of some repetitive piece of gang graffiti that states, "this is ours - keep out". It becomes quite dramatic as you see how the older sites were at the
broad mouths of the canyons where farming was comparatively easy, and then they just got more and more paranoid moving up onto the cliffs. Intestine wars no doubt. But it got harder and harder to farm from up there, and then the drought hit, arroyos cut deeper, and their passive irrigation didn't work so well anymore upcanyon. Or so the hypothesis goes. Just be careful out there toward Comb Ridge etc - even an ordinary 4WD can bog down in the sand w/o the right tires. I've found sagebrush to be a good emergency traction aid in the sand. And leave the artifacts in their solitude, if you happen to get
to an unspoiled ruin.

[Peter York]

All human societies are violent - the Anasazi are no different.

There is good evidence now of ritualized cannibalism at Chaco.

[Kirk Gittings]

There is good evidence of ritualized cannibalism and/or human sacrifice (sometimes the two are closely related and hard to distinguish in the archeological record) all over the Americas, Europe, Africa etc. going back at least to the Neolithic period. It appears to have been common amongst the Neanderthals. It was naiveté for generations of people here to think it went no further north than the valley of Mexico amongst the Indians and be surprised by the finding at Chaco. I know I was and then did some study of the practice. The oh so "peaceful" Hopis were known to practice it in historic times against their enemy dead.

[Drew Wiley]

The thing with the Anasazi didn't seem to be their fear of outside invasion but inter-clan rivalries. The apparently went after each other. What triggered this I cannot say. Perhaps
Kirk is more up to date than I am on the current hypotheses. Here in Calif it was more like
New Guinea, with petty reprisal feuds going on between villages for sometimes centuries,
sometimes started simply by an insult or kidnapping a bride etc. The Anasazi by comparison
were highly organized and there might have been a religious element to the strife. I don't
know - I don't keep up well on SW archaelology. I'm into Palaeo. But I do know that the cannibalism hypothesis at Chaco has been contested by several scholars. When I've gone into the canyon I've come back with LF shots of rock details etc, almost never a ruin per se, but still, just looking at those things stuffed way up inacessible almost makes you sense their collective fear. And maybe that whole terror episode was only a couple hundred years or so.

[Drew Wiley]

Sorry, Kirk ... I posted at the same time, and you already pre-answered one of my questions. Hope to get back to that part of the world sometime for more canyon backpacking, but it's been awhile. Per neanderthals - I once got my hands on a skullcap
from a dry cave in Spain - apparently a ritual or possibly ritual or cannibalistic kill of a
teenage girl (but no mistaking those Neanderthal brows!). The skin and hair were still there. Long silky blonde, neatly cut with a stone knife. The person who found that priceless artifact was actually bribed by some key museum people to keep it out of circulation. That was back when Neanderthals were routinely depicted in dioramas and books as stupid half-gorillas, and even Piltdown man was illustrated in the Smithsonian
brochure. I was pretty young, but was already invited onto field trip with various grad
students, sorta the kid mascot, I guess. Whatever happened to the skullcap in the long
run I have no idea. But one never forgets something like that, and no way it was a hoax.

[David Lobato]

The stair steps chopped up the side of a canyon headwall impressed me at Chaco. An archeologist told me the aboriginal population in SW Colorado was larger than current times. I grew up in the 4-corners area and know of more ruin sites than I can count. Btw, Mesa Verde in winter with fresh snow is absolutely sublime.

[Kirk Gittings]

Yes the population of what is called the Great Sage Plain in SW Colorado was much higher in the 1200-1300s than it is now. AAMOF I think it was the most densely populated area on the continent. It had a perfect rain/temp microclimate for corn/beans/squash compared to almost anywhere in the SW in that period. Archeologically that area (Canyons of the Ancients) average 8 sites per square mile with many huuuuuuge sites like Yellow Jacket, Sand Creek, Crow Canyon etc.

Drew I forget the PHds name who was so big on cannibalism at Chaco. He made some good investigations but is widely believed to have had blinders on and over stated his case and his findings. Having said that most archeologist I know agree with the basic premise that cannibalism associated with warfare (eating some part of your opponent gives you his power) and starvation cannibalism is pretty common and with a fair amount of widespread evidence in the SW. The NAs don't like this at all.

[Peter York]

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Corn-Canni.../dp/0874809681

I'm not sure if this is the only work on the subject, but it has stirred a lot of controversy.

[Kirk Gittings]

Yes that was the guy I was trying to remember. Christy G. Turner see the TV program http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0tOPxMN4c8.

As you can tell in this video, he is a bit obsessed with his research. When he visits sites that archeologist friends are working on he sees cannibalism everywhere and they think he is a bit loopy and exaggerating the evidence, but as I said above agree with the basic premise but they don't see the frequency in the archeological record that he does.