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Thread: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

  1. #11
    ROL's Avatar
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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    Quote Originally Posted by vinny View Post
    did you label it "archival inkjet", if not, that's your problem. That's what everyone is doing these days and it seems to be working.
    HA!

    FYI: By way of update, I learned only last week that these days the official terminology for sellable inkjet technology prints is "Pigment Print" (no joke). Hmm... the emperor has no clothes.

  2. #12
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    Well it is a tad misleading to call an inkjet a pigment print. The inks are technically composed of pigments, but these are very complex blends of true pigments, lakes, and simply dyed inert particles which behave more like dyes per se. Then you have no true
    emulsion involved with its own potentially preservative value, but only a substrate. The
    pigments per se obviously have to be very small and work well in a programmable gamut.
    A lot more complicated than choosing a CMYK system based upon specific process colors.
    No doubt companies like Epson have spent a lot of effort trying to factor in optimal permanence too, but that fact should always be weighed against the inevitable tendency
    for marketeers and galleries to utilize the largest BS coefficient available.

  3. #13

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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    ROL said in part "FYI: By way of update, I learned only last week that these days the officialterminology for sellable inkjet technology prints is "Pigment Print" (no joke). Hmm... the emperor has no clothes." (emphasis in the original)

    Where did you learn that? I didn't know there was an official terminology. Who established it and what makes it official?
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  4. #14

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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    I think it is fine if one wants to call prints made with inkjet prints that use pigment inksets "Pigment Prints." The term has been used, generally for prints that used pigment in conjunction with some type of colloid (gum arabic, fish glue, gelatin, etc.) but no one with reasonable knowledge of the look of different process prints would ever confuse a print made with an inkjet printer with one of these historical prints.

    Photographers who sell their work will label it as they like, or not label it at all if they don't care to. I personally write on the back of any print that I might exhibit my name, title of the print, date, and process type. Process type for inkjet pigment prints might also include the name of the inkset, say "Epson K3" or "K7 Piezography" or "Vivera."

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.
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  5. #15

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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Hopefully I won't be accused of being anti-digital for stating this, but once
    again there's the possibility that the optimism of accelerated aging tests don't always replicate real world conditions. All one has to do is peruse some of the inkjet patents to see that not all the dyes used to color certain pigments are first rate in terms of permanence.
    I would not want to be accused of being anti-analog either, but let us not forget that aside from color carbon prints all of the past analog color print processes used dyes that were very likely to fade in a short period of time with minimal exposure to UV light. All of the C and R prints I made in the 1980s look like sh&t today. On the whole my belief is that color prints made with inkjet pigment printers on good quality papers will fare much better in the long run than most analog processes of the past.

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarbronTransfer/

  6. #16

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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    I think it had to be the sheet protector sleeves, I found some equally vintage prints that were OK.

    I've kind of figured anything that went into a print portfolio book, commercial style, wasn't get reused, it would get tossed after a period. I found the length of the period ;-p and that these archival sleeves aren't.

  7. #17
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    Yes indeed Sandy. But there was a also BS coefficient in operation back when C and R prints were norm. Cibachrome was a significant improvement, and now C prints have improved quite a bit too; but I wouldn't want to display any kind of color photograph, inkjet included, in direct sunlight or under bright halogens. Maybe certain carbon pigments
    would hold up decently, but UV might damage something else in the print. Heck, even the
    Sphinx in Egypt isn't looking too good lately.

  8. #18

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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    ...Heck, even the
    Sphinx in Egypt isn't looking too good lately.
    They should have used buffered stone.

    Whoops, they did...

  9. #19
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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ellis View Post
    Where did you learn that? I didn't know there was an official terminology. Who established it and what makes it official?
    Don't get your panties in a twist. I've noticed the use of the term in published gallery books and at print venues (including museums) in LA more and more over the last few years. I inquired at a "Fine Art printing for Museum" workshop, held at Icon LA, why they were insisting on its use for any inkjet process. Their master printer informed me that it was now the custom to label all inkjet processes, pigment. Chromogenic is their term for laser print process. Anyhow, the mystery was solved for me. The powers that be, which (shhh!) I suspect may actually be the Grand Omniscient Counsel of D, from the metameristic ephemeral green planet Remulac, have proclaimed it. And, at the risk of being disintegrated, that's good enough for me.

    I don't much care what digistas call anything anymore, as long as they don't include my GSP's. Though in the never ending quest for legitimacy (which practically, they've already achieved), I'm certain that they will, eventually.

  10. #20
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    Re: Old Pigment Epsons Fading to Green?

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    I would not want to be accused of being anti-analog either, but let us not forget that aside from color carbon prints all of the past analog color print processes used dyes that were very likely to fade in a short period of time with minimal exposure to UV light. All of the C and R prints I made in the 1980s look like sh&t today. On the whole my belief is that color prints made with inkjet pigment printers on good quality papers will fare much better in the long run than most analog processes of the past.

    Sandy
    Precisely, which is why I came to the personal artistic conclusion many years ago that I could express anything photographically I desired with classical monochrome processes. F%#k color!

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