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Thread: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

  1. #1

    but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    Several 1000 dollars for a couple of metal frames and a few bolts and nuts, Ok I know it is precision made high quality materials made in small numbers, but.. it seems expensive- and thats without the lens and stuff!
    Sorry if this has been explained before, I was not able to find any explanation.
    Cheers
    Inunnguaq

  2. #2

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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    what format are you talking about?

    4x5 monorails can be had for $75. run of the mill 4x5 lenses in a copal shutter can be had for under $150. lens board for $20. so that is $245

    8x10 folding camera can be had for $400. lens for $200 with board in a shutter. that is $600
    My YouTube Channel has many interesting videos on Soft Focus Lenses and Wood Cameras. Check it out.

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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    Google

  4. #4

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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    First of all, I'm a complete novice when it comes to LF photography. I just started to get into it.
    A quick search on "the Bay of E" gave me some LF cameras, from 200 Euro up to 3000+ Euro. It all depends what you want. You want the best of the best, dig deeper into your wallet. If you just want to have some fun with LF photography, get yourself a cheep starters model. If you think you can make your own, go right ahead. There is a thread here about DIY camera's.
    You are right though, it's just a couple of metal frames and a few bolts and nuts. But it's made as a precision tool, with equal amount of specialists manhour in it. Rare or exclusive things are expensive. It's about demand and supply, with a hint of name branding.
    I'm making my own LF camera and I find it is relatively easy to make it work. Trick is to make it work right and accurate. My crude version of a LF technical camera costed me the surplus wood I had laying around in the shed and about 50 Euro's in nuts, bolts and miscellaneous. I could have gone for some exotic hard wood and precision tool manufacturing, but instead I went for plywood and 2x2's and a handsaw.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but many hobby LF photographs visit second hand stores, thrift shops and garage sales looking for camera's and components. Getting a bargain is part of the fun.

  5. #5
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    It's simple manufacturing costs are high, they are hand assembled but then the manufacturers importer (distributor) and finally retailler have to make their mark up and pfofit.

    It's not unusual in some trades for the final retail price to be 5x or more the initial unit cost of manufacture.

    Ian

  6. #6
    Drew Bedo's Avatar
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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    When I started in LF, I got a Speed Graphic with a lens and a couople of film holders. Little movement, but I was shooting. Worked with that rig for a while and bought an old Burk & James 5x7 with a reducing back. Learned about movements some. Traded "up" to a baby-Deardorff knock-off from India (Rajah) and so on.

    I now use a nice little Zone VI 4x5 and a few "modern" lenses from Nikon, Fuji and Rodenstock. I still spire to owning a 'Dorff.

    Get into LF at the low end. shoot some film and see if this is for you. If you find that this is really your cup of tea, then get into it for whatever you can afford . . .and elcome to the world of LF.
    Drew Bedo
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    There are only three types of mounting flanges; too big, too small and wrong thread!

  7. #7

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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    Dear Inunnguaq (inuit?).

    These cameras and lenses have almost garanteed at least 100 years of life in front of them.

    I have specialised in German/French 18x24 travel cameras and the big early Studio type and I can say that these will last for ever. These cost a lot when new and required large amounts of man-hours, which was fortunately/unfortunately very cheap at the time.

    If you think of the expense of modern large format cameras you must remember that:

    -volume is very small. I think very few production lines have been large enough to cover the original design time, production set-up and tooling costs.
    - no economic rational person would go into this kind of manufacturing - unless wage costs are very low. The present wave of good/well priced LF cameras from China will soon be a thing of the past.
    - the number of economic shipwrecks amongst producers is very high.

    New cameras don't turn me one - but they really are cheap in consideration of the points I mentioned above for those who are so inclined.

  8. #8
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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    Prices are what they are because people pay them.

    Let's say I create a new camera, the RickField. I do my marketing research, and find that at a price point of $5000, I might sell 20 RickFields. And at $2000, I might sell 50. Maybe at $1000 I'll sell 200, and at $400 I'll sell 1000.

    Now, let's say my costs, including the cost of sales (which includes what my sales force and dealer network will need, by whatever sale model I choose) add up to $2500 if I make 20 cameras, $1000 if I make 50 cameras, $800 if I make 200, and $750 if I make 1000.

    Right off the bat, I cannot sell at the $400 price point, because it is lower than my cost at that production level. At the $5000 price point, I'll gross $50,000. At the $2000 price point, I'll gross $50,000. And at the $1000 price point, I'll gross $40,000. Right away, I can eliminate selling at the $1000 price point.

    Now, let's say that I can only make 20 of these cameras a year at the quality model I want to build. That settles it: If I can only make 20, then I have the right to expect to sell them to the 20 people willing to pay the most.

    Sometimes, increasing the price increases the market, in a market driven by fashion. That might happen with the wood field cameras, which are fashionable. It certainly happens with digital cameras, where the marginal improvement is a sliver for a price increase of 400% at the high end of the market. Often, though, price for a fashionable item is constrained by supply. The fact that I can only make 20 RickFields might be the reason it can attract 20 buyers at the $5000 price point. But at that price point, they will have be gorgeously beautiful in addition to beautifully functional.

    I can also aim at a lower price point and come up with a way to reduce costs. Shen-Hao reduces cost using cheap labor and materials purchased in a low-cost market, while Ben Syverson is reducing costs using an ultra-simple design. At the price point he is hoping for, his market will be pretty large, I expect.

    Back when film-based monorail cameras were used routinely in commercial applications, they were able to charge very high prices for them, but they had to support a quality model to fetch that price from commercial photographers. Sinar, Arca, and Linhof had high costs, so they built high-end products with the quality and flexibility needed to attract a high-end clientele. Cambo and Toyo were aiming at a lower price point, with amateurs in mind. Calumet invented the amateur monorail camera market by providing a good one at a very low price point. But when you compare the production quality of an Arca, Sinar or a Linhof to a Cambo or an old Calumet, you find a lot of precision machining in the former and a lot of casting with adequate machining in a the needed spots in the latter. What makes high-end monorails cheap now is the glut on the used market. Before that happened, I would never have been able to afford a Sinar.

    Rick "price is determined by the market" Denney

  9. #9

    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    Thanks all, thinking of 4x5, -yes I am aware you can find cheap stuff on ebay and such, just wondering why new is so expensive.

  10. #10

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    Re: but why so expensive - LF cameras.

    Quote Originally Posted by inunnguaq View Post
    Thanks all, thinking of 4x5, -yes I am aware you can find cheap stuff on ebay and such, just wondering why new is so expensive.
    A lot of the "cheap stuff" is inexpensive because it is being sold by people who no longer has a need for it. Many of these folks seem to have "gotten their monies worth" and don't need to turn a significant profit. Many are supporters of the arts and almost happy to sell at a decent price to people who want to get into LF.

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