Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 30

Thread: Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

  1. #11

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Jerald,

    I think you've misunderstood the scenario. We're shooting from the SAME point or SAME distance from whatever subject it is we're concerned with.

    An object will ONLY appear larger against background if you move in CLOSER with your camera to cover the same view with a wider lens. And this WILL change perspective which cannot be later altered by enlargment. However, a shot from SAME point. regardless of lens used, will produce exactly same persepctive. I added enlargment and/or cropping, because a wider lens from identical point will show more in the straight image than a longer lens will. So it needs to be cropped in order to see the same up to the margins. Cropping alone would make the final image smaller, so it will then have to be enlarged, and then compared side by side, to see the identical perspective they've produced.
    Witold
    simplest solutions are usually the most difficult ...

  2. #12

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Tim,

    I think you have the answer you are looking for but I wish to point out there is a distinction between a perceptual “illusion” and an optical one. Optics is a science and as such abstract. Optically there is no difference in the ray diagram for the two proposed images. However they are not, NOT the same photograph. If you perceive a difference and it is a consistent difference then it is an important difference. IF you have images of this sort to test with, have someone shuffle the images and test you to see if your perceptions are consistently correct as to which is which. You might save yourself a bunch of film and effort or you may be a convert as I am to the larger format.

    Cheers,

  3. #13

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Witold, I refer you to AA's book Camera and Lens pgs 152-157. He photographed the same scene of a fountain and custom house at identical positions with different focal length lenses. The perspectives are entirely different. We are not talking about an individual object but a scene in which near and far objects will change in their relative sizes when photographed with different focal length lenses all taken from the same point.Tim is right, the same scene will look different.

  4. #14

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Witold, I think you are right. Pictures 80a thru 80d were made from different camera locations. 78 and 79 were from the same position and I thought that 80a thru 80d were also from the same locations - but they weren't. I stand corrected.

  5. #15

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Tim: I know what you're talking about. When I bought my first 8x10 lenses, after shooting 4x5 for ten years +, I went for the 2x equivalents to my favorite 4x5 focal lengths. To my surprise, they didn't render the same feel as the 4x5 lenses. I'm finding that in general--if this makes any sense--8x10 lenses don't seem to vary as dramatically at either end of the spectrum. For example, a 75mm lens in 4x5 is pretty wide, but my 150mm XL on 8x10 seems not nearly as sweeping. On the long end, a 450mm or 600mm on 8x10 does not seem to compress like the equivalent--say 240mm or 300mm--on the smaller camera. I haven't tried printing to the same scale from similar 4x5 and 8x10 chromes, so I can't prove it!

    As to the "all lenses produce the same perspective" idea, all I can say is that I routinely use a wide variety of 4x5 lenses not just because I'm too lazy to walk forward or back, but because they produce a wide variety of different feels or "tensions" between elements in the frame. Crazy? Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe the example is wrong--the thing is, you wouldn't shoot the same subject from the same distance with different lenses; you'd move the camera. And that's where the lenses begin to produce different effects, no?

    Nice thread, thanks...

  6. #16

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Tim,

    I feel that you are correct about the way in which 8x10 renders a scene differently to a 4x5 camera with a lens of equivalent angle of view. I believe that it has to do with the compression of space that is a property of all longer lenses. The background seems to get pulled forward lending the image a greater sense of solidity (for want of a better term). I find a similar difference between the step up from 35mm to medium format. An image of the same scene from a 50mm lens in 35mm then an 80mm lens in MF look different, the medium format image having more "solidity". .

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Posts
    769

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Assuming away all the simpler complicating factors - different lenses, renderings, grain etc - I can think of one difference. Think of it this way - imagine a picture taken with a 90mm lens on 4x5. View a print from this negative from your normal viewing distance and you have the typical wide angle look. Stick your nose close to the print, 90mm away and the wide angle look vanishes - I forget the term Rudolph Kingslake uses - I think it is center of perspective. Same situation behind the ground glass - if you look at the 4x5 GG from the same distance that you view the 8x10 GG, lenses of identical angle of view will produce images on the GG that seem subtly different. And I'm sure that influences the way we compose images - therefore, images composed on 8x10 with the equivalent focal length have a somewhat different 'feel' from the same images composed on 4x5. Other than that, I can't think of any mathematical or optical reason to see a difference - in other words, if we scale the entire system up exactly twice, including the distance behind the GG where we place or eye, I doubt you will find a difference. Pure speculation, of course. Cheers, DJ

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts USA
    Posts
    8,476

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    "I feel there is a real difference....I know I always get a little lost with the math...Or am I completely wrong...?"



    With all due respect, yes.

  9. #19

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    Scott,

    I agree entirely that we use different focal lengths to get what we desire. And as we change lenses, we also change our shooting position.

    That being said, in order to compare apples to apples, we can't talk different focal length, then adjust our shooting spot, and then say we're getting a different look. Of course we will. The same-perspective-for-any-lens idea remains as an undisputable fact, as long as the same shooting position is retained.

    As to the difference from format to format, please guys keep in mind that a 50 mm for 35 is NOT the same as an 80 for a 6x6, and this minor difference may lead you to adjust your shooting position just enough to affect the outcome.

    I'm not advocating that math should be part of compositional aspects of any medium. Just like with film testing etc., it's not pretty but still quite effective.

    We always strive for that unique look and only our own vision can lead us to that.
    Witold
    simplest solutions are usually the most difficult ...

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Tonopah, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    6,334

    Does the same scene look different in 4x5 and 8x10?

    A 135mm lens will produce the IDENTICAL "angle of view" on a 4X5 sheet as a 270mm will on an 8X10 sheet. If you took the two pics, one with 4X5/135 and the other with 8X10/270, and enlarged the 4X5 pic to 8X10 and layed it next to the 8X10 contact print made with the 270 the scene would be identical. But the 810 might be better quality. :>))

Similar Threads

  1. Returning to the Scene of a Crime
    By Ron Bose in forum On Photography
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 28-Jul-2004, 19:16
  2. After spot reading the scene and selecting a curve...now what?
    By John D Gerndt in forum Style & Technique
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 17-Jun-2004, 09:29
  3. Linhof 8x10 GTL or Horseman 8x10 LX-C or Arca 8x10 M-line?
    By Roger Urban in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 14-Oct-2001, 14:42
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 17-Jul-2001, 10:31
  5. Linhof 8x10 GTL or Horseman 8x10 LX-C or Arca 8x10 M-line
    By Roger Urban in forum Cameras & Camera Accessories
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 1-Sep-2000, 21:40

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •