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Thread: A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

    Developed my first bit of B&W sheet film last night and used BTZS tubes (TMAX 100 in D-76). Went OK, negs look roughly the right density, maybe a little thin. Using the BTZS raised a couple of questions:
    <ol>
    <li>Do you use the "rotary processing tables"? I did use these and it seems OK, but since my shooting environment was not particularly controlled, my exposure could have been off. I used 6'30" @ 19 degrees
    <li>Assuming you are doing all the film the same time, do you need to stage it? For example, I did two sheets. I put one in followed by the other a minute later. I obviously removed them a minute apart. My rational for this was when I was removing the film, I would need time to unscrew the tops an place them in the stop bath. Do I need to actually do this? Or could I grab all the tubes at one time, invert them all, and place them in the stop bath one at a time. This would drain the developer from the film while they wait to be placed in the stop bath, but obviously some small amount of developer would remain on the film. Is it enough to cause grief?
    </ol>

    Thanks for all the help for a poor newbie so far!

  2. #2

    Join Date
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    A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

    I've used the BTZS tubes for years, both in 4x5 and 8x10, they're great. I don't know what you mean by "rotary processing tables." Do you mean a table for development times based on rotary processing and are you asking whether you can use tables for rotary processing with the BTZS tubes? If that's what you're asking then yes, assuming you keep the tubes in constant rotation as you should (I rotate the batch 10 times in one direction then 10 times in the opposite direction throughout the development process using the palm of my hand with the tubes in a water bath) rotary processing times can be used. However, I actually don't rely on tables, I did my own testing.

    I think it's a good idea to stagger the beginning times as you did but you don't need to stagger them by a minute. I usually develop six sheets of film at a time (i.e. six tubes). I separate the beginning times for sets of two tubes by ten seconds each. Ten seconds is enough time to remove the tops of the first set of two tubes, get them in the stop bath, then move on to the next set of two tubes, get them in the stop bath, then move on to the last set of two tubes, get them in the stop bath, by which time the first set is ready to be removed from the stop bath and into the fix, etc. etc. Hopefully this is clear.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

    Hi Paul,

    After years of using other processing methods, I am an enthusiastic convert to BTZS tubes. Obviously, the best info on processing times would be derived from your own Zone System -- or BTZS -- testing. Failing that, however, The BTZS website, BTZS.org, is a goldmine of info on processing with BTZS tubes. Phil Davis has published in his news letter extensive information on processing times with all the popular film-developer combinations. I don't remember off hand whether all of this information is available on the website, but if it isn't just post a question in the forum. Remember to specify whether you are using old TMax or New TMax. Apparently there is a difference.

    I can't make a guess whether or not your processing time was too short because you don't specify whether you used straight or diluted D-76.

    When I am devlop several films for the same time, I do what you do: put them in and remove them at 1 minute intervals. I am far too clumsy to unscrew and empty two (or more) tubes at once.

  4. #4

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    A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

    Thanks for the feedback! It is very helpful.

    When I referred to the rotary tables, I was referring to the tables in the kodak publication.

    When it comes to "diluted", it remains unclear to me what the definition of diluted means when using D-76. I mixed it as per instructions (which makes 3.8L, I had the small bag). It then says to make a working solution, mix one part water and one part solution (1:1), so that is what I used. It remains unclear to me if that is defined as diluted or full strength. Sigh, sometimes the simplest things can be complex, especially when you are as pedantic as I am.

    As for testing....well, I am against testing right now. Currently my objective is to spend less time on technical issues and more time on the photography. Since I scan and print, you can actually get away with a little more w.r.t. contrast, etc. When I start producing negs where I say "This would be perfect if only I had done N-1" I will consider becoming more technical. Between now and then, I am trying to focus all my time on improving my aesthetics.

  5. #5

    A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

    I'm not sure if I understood your no-testing notion. You don't have to spend too much time doing it, but I think you do need to be fairly sure that your exposure matches processing somewhat. I see getting technical as fine tuning the stuff you're working with, and basic testing as a must, so the pizza isn't so salty you then have to suger it to help digestion.
    Witold
    simplest solutions are usually the most difficult ...

  6. #6

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    A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

    On testing: I guess it depends on what you mean by testing. I certainly am prepared to do some shots, develop some film and tweak a bit. The goal is to get a repeatable, reliable process with no N+/-X (at this time) which produces negs which are good quality and scan well. I say I am not prepared to test because testing, to many people, means test strips, densitometers, etc. I worked for some time in a lab and did all this, so I guess I should have clarified what I meant by no testing.

    I answered my own question about D-76 by reading Kodak publication J-78 instead of the package. That publication is much clearer; If I dilute, I need to increase processing time about 10%. It also increases sharpness (actually, I presume acutance) and grain. It would explain the [very] slightly thin looking negs. Tonight I am trying full strength to see what happens, although it is in the reciprocity area of TMAX (8 second exposure, actually using 13s) so as testing goes, not a great idea. But I am having fun

  7. #7

    A couple of questions about BTZS tubes.

    Paul,

    My only point about testing is, that you should be relatively sure about the way your equipment matches film/developer combination. If your tweaking is based on different scenes, hardly comparable for testing purposes, you're probably looking at never ending inconsistencies. Minute they may be, but if you shoot a monotone value on several sheets, it would give you enough material to get your processing in a ball park (printing should be part of it). In other words, one afternoon for film and another in the darkrrom will do. No densitometer needed, just rely on your visual examination.

    There is, in my opinion, too many veriables in processing that can affect the outcome. Knowing how some of them turn out is always to your advantage.
    Witold
    simplest solutions are usually the most difficult ...

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