Strobe requirements for 4x5

[Paul Kierstead]

When I researched getting into 4x5 two things did not sink into my little 'ol brain at all:

1) How wonderful it is for portraits 2) Just the immense quantity of light required.

I have been incredibly surprised at #1 .. just shooting quick portraits of friends who visit on type 55 and I have been stunned at the wonderfulness. I have been deeply shocked (but not apalled) at #2; since I initally only considered it for landscape work, I never really gave much thought to the amount of light required to get an aperture that is useful.

So my focusing lights are fun (1500W of HomeDepot(tm) lighting), but the shutter is still too slow and if I add any diffusion, it is hopeless for people. My pair of very nice Canon 550EX strobes put a lot out for camera-mounted strobes, but again don't get close to F22 unless pointed directly at the subject and very close; not too useful most of the time.

I only shoot portraits just for fun, so I do NOT want to make a big investment. I am looking at used. I figure I need 3 heads (my 2 500's always leave me wanting on more; OTOH, I think you can probably never have enough...) Questions for those who have done this and are willing to help: 1) How much power is required (in Ws I guess)? I am assuming use of a soft box or brollies. 2) Will the modelling lights become useless if mix brands and/or powers? 3) Given that I will need some power adjustability, what would be some good units to look for on the used market which are reliable, powerful, blah blah basically good buys?

Any help would be appreciated. Portability is not a huge concern, battery powered is a non concern, I don't care about group shots, though interior "environmental shots" might be nice.

[David A. Goldfarb]

W-s aren't really a measure of light output, since that depends on the efficiency of the heads and choice of reflector/diffuser, but a pack system of around 1000 W-s should give you enough for portraits on 4x5".

There are lots of good systems out there. I like Normans for the quality of light they produce, even though they are less efficient than other systems and require some care in their use. I've used them for about 12 years without incident. There is lots of used Norman stuff out there, and it's rugged and quite affordable. A used P2000D (2000 W-s) in good working order should run about $350 plus figure $125 to $250 per head, depending on age and condition and whether a fan is included. Figure even less if you get an 800 W-s or 1250 W-s unit, but I think the P2000D is the best deal among the Norman packs,if you figure W-s/per dollar (again, don't compare W-s of one system to another, since heads vary in efficiency, and W-s is only a measure of how much power is going into the head, not how much light is coming out).

Speedotron Blackline equipment is also very economical on the used market.

If I were buying new, I'd probably be thinking Elinchrom, but it's not cheap.

[James Venis]

I attended a Dean Collins seminar many years ago. One thing that stuck with me was the ways he was able to use "wasted light" from a single light source. With an appropriately powerful main light, he used all kinds of tricks to capture and use light spilling past the subject. He'd use typical reflectors, of course, but I was intrigued to see him using high-efficiency acrylic mirror material to substitute for hair lights, background lights, and so on. He could even customize these uses with colored mirrors (though he could have used gels, of course). Think of the advantages: Not only in reducing your big capital outlay to a single lamphead, but also minimizing the cost of accessories, spares, insurance, maintenance, storage space, and hauling! With clients moving around in a setting unfamiliar to them, fewer cables means fewer accidents and less liability as well.

Even with multiple heads, I would think that single-subject portraits on medium-speed films would require a minimum of about 400WS. You will pay less per WS with higher-power units, however (800WS is nice; 1000WS is nice; 4000WS might be overkill), you'll have greater flexibility in "pushing" that light through diffusers and gels and such, and you can usually "dial-down" the power as needed for any situation. Also, a higher-power unit might be easier to re-sell later. If you're going to buy used, make sure you have access to a qualified technician, and talk to that person about parts availability before you commit.

[Steve J Murray]

Couple of points. I have shot many 4x5 portraits just using window light or indirect daylight using Tri-X. You don't have to use f22 for portraits. I also used to have a 1600 WS Speedotron Brown Line system. That was more than enough for any type of portrait, using one or two heads and umbrellas or softbox and using reflectors. Try shooting some with your current equipment. Use f8 or f11 and fast film, slow shutter. People can hold still. Check out my photos on photonet. I have one portrait using 4x5 and window light (my grandfather) in my people folder. I could post more. Check out Mark Tucker's website. He's a commercial photographer. Last time I looked he had a bunch of head shots using a Crown Graphic and natural light on a street corner.

[Ted Harris]

IMHO lighting is one area where you really do get what you pay for. The inexpensive units that you see so oftenon eBay and elsewhere will give you much less light per $ than the more expensive industry leaders. This comment comes from years working as a theatrical lighting designer and electrician as well as working with all sorts of light in a studio.



My preference is for monolights but htere should be no real difference in performance betwen monolights and strobe heads and a powerpack, although if anything goes wrong with the pack then all your heads are dead. I go into this because i am puzzled that you find 1500 Ws of power inadequate. I have 4x500 Ws hensel units (each puts out an honest 500 joules or watts) and 1 1000 Ws Hensel unit as well as a bunch of ho tlights. For portrait work I hardly ever use more than two of the 500's sometimes with a small hotlight 'kicker' or hair light. Frequently I use one of the units and half power or less. Often I do portraits with just one 500 Ws unit. My film is nevr faster than ISO 100 and often slower.



An aperature range of f8-f22 is usually possible with these setups and a shutter speed of 1/60 or 1/30.

[Paul Kierstead]

David, James, thanks for the input! I am getting a little more feel for the power required now, at least.

Steve: Some nice work there. I am all for window light and outdoors (I still think almost nothing gets close to window light in terms of beauty), but consider this (which you could not have known): Currently the sun sets here at 4:30 PM and the ambient temperature is 3 degress C, which will be dropping rapidly in the coming weeks and months. Since I am not about to give up my day job (it wouldn't be prudent , I am left only with weekends where I actually see any window light which isn't the light coming into my cube, and my weekends are often more busy then I would like. So, for the moment, I am very stuck with artificial light. I am also very much enjoying shooting on type 55 (at ISO 64) for my learning phase as I often get bad hand placement, etc. And I know a lot of hyper people I am also trying to work some more "formal" type shots, i.e. shots which are obviously posed or otherwise not natural. But still you make a lot of good points. I am trying to spend more money on film then gear (really trying to shake my gearhead tendencies) hence my aim for thriftiness. I will continue to shoot what I have for a while, because I don't expect to obtain a good deal on lights in the next short while and I have no intention of stopping shooting.

But I have to admit I always discount reflectors too much. I think it is because I really have nothing to hold them and I need to knock something togather that holds reflectors for me. Could save a lot of money, plus increase my skills. I must contemplate this.

[Paul Kierstead]

Sorry Ted, you slipped in there while I was writing a reply. Thanks for the advice! A typo in the original has mislead you. I am using 2 CANON 550EX's. Now I assure you that the number (550) is most certainly not the power rating. They are awesome for 35mm/digital, where F/4 or F/5.6 is more then enough, but much to weak to hit the smaller apertures.

[John Cook]

I cast one vote for Speedotron blackline equipment. It has served me well for decade’s.

However...

For a completely different solution to your problem without extension cords and polaroid check shots: Take a long hard look at the Matthews Grip Equipment website and order a detailed catalogue at http://www.matthewsgrip.com/

With a few scrims, flags, reflectors and cookies, you can make sunlight do magical things, just like Cecil B. DeMille used to.

Get to know the cinematographers’ equipment toy box. Why should they have all the fun?

[Steve J Murray]

Just a note on reflectors. You can clamp a piece of foamcore to a light stand or anything. My favorite reflector is a piece 32 by 40 inch foamcore with a silvery piece of fabric taped to one side. Through the middle I stuck a large bolt, which has a nut holding it in place. The bolt is inserted into a bracket that's made for holding strobes on a light stand. It can be tilted at any angle that way and very useful for adjusting the fill light just where you want it. I've done many portraits with one strobe/umbrella and this reflector. The shot of my daughter at age 4 (photonet)was done with this set up with a low powered strobe and 35mm.

[Ellis Vener]

roughly speaking figure that electronic flash is about 10 stops more efficient when comparing watt second to "hot light" watt rating.