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Thread: 150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

  1. #1

    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    I am planning to do a series of close-ups in 4x5 (1:5 up to 1:1) and I am trying to choose a convenient focal length for my Ebony RW45. My Ebony has a spec bellows extension of 430mm, so I beleive that even with a 240, I should be able to get close to 1:1. My major concern is working distance. My only lens is a 90mm so I can't make an estimate of working distance myself. The subjects will be placed on the ground and photographed from above. With my current tripod setup, this will mean that I can work no more than 5.5 feet above the subject. Is 240 too long for 1:5 work with this setup? Alternatively, is there a formula to estimate working distance as a function of focal length and magnification?

    Thanks

    Jonathan

  2. #2

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    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    I do not get a lot of working room with my 150. I do not have a 240 (someday I hope) so i cannot comment on that. The 150 is pretty cramped and out side because of the closeness the shadow of the camera has to be taken into account. A bit more distance and this might not be a problem.

    I would go for the 240

    Just a thought

  3. #3

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    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    At 1:1, you need two focal lengths of extension and your subject will be two focal lengths from the lens. At that distance, you can't focus by moving the lens, you'll just be changing the image/subject ratio. You need to move either the whole camerqa or the subject. A "laboratory jack" (frequently available on eBay) is a convenient way to move the subject.

  4. #4

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    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    Johnathan, Before I sold my Ebony, I used a cool extention lens board that you can screw multiple extention tubes onto. I used to get closer extention with a 305 G-claron. I got mine from badgergraphic.com. Using this should let you use the 240 with the RW for close-ups with ease.

  5. #5

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    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    Johnathan,

    I have used both on a 4x5, but the 240mm suffers from depth of field problems for "deep" subjects near 1:1 that the 150 does not. For general use, I prefer the 150.

    Thanks!

    Steve

  6. #6

    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    A) The 240 can't get to 1:1 on your camera. I want one myself, but as an 8x10 macro lens.

    B) At 1:1, the 150 will eat up 300mm of your camera's extension. That means you'll still have 130mm of extension to play with if you go with the 150. A very useful 130mm...

    If your camera allows focus adjustments on the back standard you can use the additional extension as a focusing rail. The additional extension will also allow your bellows to flex enough to apply movements (shift & rise are quite handy in macro).

    At full extension, no camera is any fun. Your bellows tend to be as tight as a drum, and a #3 shutter on a teeny-weenie 4x5 camera stretched out half a meter doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

    Lighting can be tricky with a 150: get a good reflector. It doesn't have to be big, just packable and efficient.

    I recommend the 150. I think you'll find yourself working slightly beyond 1:1 quite often, and you'll be thankful that you have the flexibility.

  7. #7

    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?



    The equations for calculating image-to-lens distance Si and lens-to-object So distance are in the Lens Tutorial by David Jacobson at http://www.photo.net/learn/optics/lensTutorial.
    As others have said, the case M=1 gives both Si = 2f and So = 2f. For 1:5 (M=0.2) and f=240 mm, the lens-to-object distance would be So = 1440 mm = 1.44 m = 4.7 feet.





    I used a 240 mm lens for studio type shots at 1:few and found the distances to be inconveniently large for the room I was using. If you have a sizeable studio it would work well. I don't think you will find 1:few to be convenient with a 240 mm lens with the camera pointing down to the floor. You will need a ladder to view the ground glass in this configuration. Both Rodenstock and Schneider make 180 mm macro lenses, which is a clue to what focal length either the manufacturers or the market demand thinks is good. I think 180 mm is a good compromise between having enough coverage (which wants a long focal length) and not consuming too much space or bellows extensions (which wants a short focal length).


  8. #8

    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    The depth of field at 1:1 magnification will be the same with either the 240 or 150mm lens. The only thing that will change is the working distance. I have used both the 150 and 240 for applications in this magnification range and find the 240 is preferable. The increased working distance is a definite advantage for dealing with the lights. I don't have a limitation with bellows length, if you do the 240 may not be convenient.

  9. #9
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    I do a lot of work with small objects in the range you are discussing. I use lenses ranging from 235mm to 360 mm but find that I work with 180 mm most frequently.

  10. #10

    150 or 240 for 4x5 closeup work?

    A few considerations for macro work:

    * Longer focal lengths result in shallower DOF
    * Longer bellows requirements result in a setup that's more prone to vibration

    I do a fair amount of close-up work with my 150 - I consider it a great tool for the job in general. However, the two considerations above often make 120 more desirable when large magnification is required (it's no accident so many manufacturers have optimized macro lenses in this focal length).
    For 1:5 you may be more comfortable with a 150 or 180 in terms of working distance.

    Guy

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