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Thread: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

  1. #91
    Big Negs Rock!
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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    What Richard says about data capture as opposed to careful composition with a film camera is what is going on in the motion picture industry. With electronic capture, the camera rolls forever with as many angles as possible. With film, the approach is more deliberate. It seems the nature of the beast. BTW, I have an 11x14 and the only response I've had in public is, "How many mega pixels is that thing!?"
    Mark Woods

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  2. #92
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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Woods View Post
    What Richard says about data capture as opposed to careful composition with a film camera is what is going on in the motion picture industry. With electronic capture, the camera rolls forever with as many angles as possible. With film, the approach is more deliberate. It seems the nature of the beast. BTW, I have an 11x14 and the only response I've had in public is, "How many mega pixels is that thing!?"
    Even in film, the trend has been towards film everything and make art later during editing. I think I heard somewhere that a major motion picture might use up a couple million feet of film to make what will end up being maybe 12,000 feet of a movie film (on 35mm). A hallmark of the old, low-budget horror movies and the like is that they edited in camera and could make a movie using maybe 50,000 feet of film.

    Turns out the actors, lighting, equipment, director, slaves, native bearers, and assorted other chattel costs more per minute than the film and editing does.

    Rick "pitying the editor" Denney

  3. #93
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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    Bill Fraker told me that when he shot Heaven Can Wait, based on Here Comes Mr. Jordan, he shot 600,000' of film, the original shot 60,000', they shot in 11 days, and he shot in 11 months. And the original was better.

    I know the trend, but with electronic capture, it's much worse. BTW, when there's that much material, it's a bunch of editors' assistants with a few supervisors.
    Mark Woods

    Large Format B&W
    Cinematography Mentor at the American Film Institute
    Past President of the Pasadena Society of Artists
    Director of Photography
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  4. #94

    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    Well I'll chime in here.For me the problem with stitching has been not so much perspective, but depth of field.I've been experimenting with stitching over two years now.Have two Nodal Ninja heads, and use Auto Pano Giga.I have tried stitching with everything from my Canon A640 up to my 5dMkII.I made a hard decision this week and sold both my 5DII and 550D dslr's.Below is an image I made with the smaller APS-C sensor.The problem is depth of field with near/far relationships.For this image I shot 20 frames to stitch, but for each of those 20 frames I had to shoot another 10 frames each for focus stacking in Helicon focus.So a total of 200 shots, and more time processing than it takes me to tray develop and scan my 8x10 negs..The light was dancing in and out of the clouds which made the ice plant very difficult to deal with.When I was all done I had spent 45 min trying to get the light even, and again a ton of time focus blending and stitching.I think the image ended up not bad, but that's just a ludicrous amount of time and effort, for me at least.With the 5DII being full frame its the same thing but a little worse DOF, so I finally said the hell with this and sold everything I have on the Canon forums.Its just so much easier to set my 8x10 up, adjust my tilts for DOF, and get the shot in one frame.My 8x10 negs scanned on my 4990 yield 16x20 prints just as technically good as the 5DII, and I have the latitude to drum scan and print huge if I want.

    To the OP if your still reading, I also have a Shen-Hao 4x5, and I find it much easier working with my C-1 8x10.The knobs are bigger, movements less fiddly, I drop things less, can compose easier, can make high quality prints from my consumer flat bed, and can pretend I'm brett Weston Give it a try and if you don't like it you can recoup your hardware cost easily.MHO

    Chris



    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    But the perspective is sooooo far off, it isn't funny! Try a wide lens on an 8x10, like a 160mm or shorter, and then do the same scene on a stitched image. It is so different, it's just not funny. Or maybe it is funny, depending on your sense of humor.

    There are so many things that can change the course of operating a scanning back, let alone a massive capture for stitching, that I'll always go for 8x10.

  5. #95
    JBAphoto JBAphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    Yes, definitely worth it,

    I came to 10x8" the wrong way round - I needed a new 5x4" enlarger and the best on offer in WA was a 10x8" DeVere 5108E with a complete Rodenstock and a complete Schneider lens set and all the fruit down to 35mm for less money than I could find a good 5x4" enlarger for - In the end the builder's fees for building a turret on my darkroom came to more than the enlarger

    Next I was offered a set of 10x8" hangers for $20.00

    Then came the two cameras

    If I had gone through the normal camera and lenses route first I would never have gone so big

    Following this is a set of ply roll print troughs for 42 inch wide rolls of paper

    Now I have gone this far I am very glad and have gone up to 36x45 inch prints for my 2014 exhibition

    John

  6. #96

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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    There is a simplicity to shooting B&W 8x10 & contact printing which I personally find gratifying. The equipment is basic, the challenges often present interesting problems solved by thinking things out rather than investing in technology, and the results both honest and stunning at the same time (as they used to say on that old tv show The "A" Team: "I love it when a plan comes together.")
    Its not for everyone.
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  7. #97
    Downstairs
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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    Depends on the effort one takes to set up the shot.
    After all the trouble getting things to fit together somehow one feels it's worth the biggest piece of film available. Presumably it's the same after climbing up a mountain.

  8. #98

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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    Quote Originally Posted by cjbroadbent View Post
    Depends on the effort one takes to set up the shot.
    After all the trouble getting things to fit together somehow one feels it's worth the biggest piece of film available. Presumably it's the same after climbing up a mountain.
    Fabulous. Is that still just one light?

  9. #99

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    Re: Is 8x10 worth the trouble???

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kasaian View Post
    The equipment is basic, the challenges often present interesting problems solved by thinking things out rather than investing in technology, and the results both honest and stunning at the same time
    I think you have best summed up on one sentence the way I feel about just 8x10 *shooting* also. Even though I have an elaborate hybrid process after shooting, the die is set from this highly manual, compromise-driven process on the front end that allows for extraordinary results when done well.

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