Jon Cone on Carbon Piezography

[Nathan Potter]

Article is similar to what appeared in the Nov/Dec View Camera. I found it exceedingly useful in that there was a bit of history along with a discussion about current technique as exemplified by a few current printing specialists. Fascinating for me because I was not aware of the K2 outfit in Austin TX. mentioned. I must look them up.

Great credit to Simmons and Cone for getting this in print.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Tyler Boley]

don't know why the link was dead for a bit, perhaps Jon did a little editing. It should be live now-

http://theagnosticprint.org/the-stat...n-black-white/

Tyler

[Ken Lee]

To answer my question concerning longevity, I had a look at the Aardenburg "explanation of the Conservation Display ratings" described in this PDF document: http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/cg...U2Nzg5LyoxMDg=

A glance at the page which shows the ratings of various papers, suggests that 140 is roughly average for the samples tested. There are some Canon and Epson results which go up to a rating of 240.

According to the document, a print with a rating of 100, placed in a "South-facing window in U.S.A. , e.g., storefront display with photos directly facing window" yields a display time of 2.3 years.

Many of the store-front art galleries I see here in Massachusetts exhibit paintings in the window, just as jewelry stores display gems and watches for sale. I've seen store-front portrait studios which do the same, but I have no idea how long those photos stay on display. I presume that a well-processed Pt/Pd or Carbon print could stay there a very long time, and fade no more than a gold ring.

Please correct me if I am mistaken

[paulr]

I presume that a well-processed Pt/Pd or Carbon print could stay there a very long time, and fade no more than a gold ring.

Please correct me if I am mistaken

I did an informal lightfastness test of some piezography wedges in my window ... Northwest facing, not south, but I left them taped there for about six years. For kicks I threw in a couple of strips of toned silver prints, a drugstore c-print, and a platinum print.

Everything was cut down the middle, with one half stashed in a flatfile.

Interestingly, the platinum print showed some changes within the first six months. It looked to me like the paper base bleached a bit. This influenced the look of the image even if it had nothing to do with the image itself. After that I saw no further changes.

The color print did the worst, but it held up longer than I'd expected. Hardly any visible change until after the first year. The piezo and silver prints did not change.

I would have kept the test going, but I got really sick of seeing those things in my window.

[sanking]

Proper processing and the quality of the final support, whether paper fiber or synthetic, is very important to long term print stability.

I have personally seen pt/pd prints by well-known photographers that were stained from improper processing. And with carbon transfer many people use fixed out photo papers as the final support, and if not fixed and washed correctly these papers can cause problems.

However, palladium and platinum metals are very stable, and carbon pigment in a gelatin binder is inert, so in general the weak link of pt/pd and carbon prints is not the image, but the final support.

Although I became interested in carbon transfer because of its permanence that is not the reason I continue to work with the. The attractions for me at this point in time are 1) the act of hand crafting a print, and 2) the unique surface and textural quality of these images which is provided by the relief, which gives a three-dimensional look to carbon print.

We can perhaps make too much of longevity by obsessing over the quality. On the other hand, I have read messages by commercial printers who admit to using cheap ink sets of dubious permanence.

Sandy

[Brian Ellis]

It's always interesting but discouraging to me to read articles like this. They leave me with a feeling of complete inadequacy and the belief that there's a whole vast body of knowledge and technique out there that I should know a lot more about than I do. I've used QTR since it first became available but since abandoning MIS inks years ago I've just used the Epson inks in my 3800 with QTR to make b&w prints. I've never even tried to make my own curves or mix inks or do any of the other kinds of things that are discussed in this article. Worse yet, I have no idea how one would go about learning to do them.

[sanking]

Brian,

No reason to be discouraged. Using QTR with the Epson inks to make monochrome prints is a perfectly viable way to work in my opinion. The prints may not have as much longevity as prints made with an all carbon ink set but I know from experience that they can be displayed for a long time with no color shift. I have had some split toned prints on my wall for many years made with QTR/Epson 2200/Epson UC pigment inks and they look as good to my eye as the day they were made.

You could set yourself up with a Piezography K7 set for the Epson 3800 and be making perfect prints in a few days with QTR. Problem is, you now have a dedicated monochrome printer and can no longer make color prints. Also, using QTR with color inks, either Epson or Cone, gives you some split toning possibilities that you lose with Piezography. Though Cone seems to have an interesting new set for the 3800 that may allow for split toning.

And just for the record, the guys mentioned in that article are professionals who make their living printing for others. They can justify spending the time and setting up multiple printers with specific ink sets. People like you and me who just print our own work generally lack the time, space or inclination for this.

Sandy

[Oren Grad]

Using QTR with the Epson inks to make monochrome prints is a perfectly viable way to work in my opinion. The prints may not have as much longevity as prints made with an all carbon ink set but I know from experience that they can be displayed for a long time with no color shift.

You can use QTR with the Epson K3 set to make carbon-only prints - per recent release notes, the "warm" profile uses "K, LK, and LLK inks i.e. carbon only".

The catch is that, like other carbon-only inksets, it produces a distinctive, warm tonal scale. I mostly don't care for it myself - I prefer something more neutral for most of my pictures. Unfortunately, so far as I know there is at present no inkset that offers both maximum stability and tonal neutrality.

[Tyler Boley]

Apparently there are ways to manipulate the hue of carbon in the ink manufacture process, though it is generally warm. The Epson k inks are warm in a yellowish way, not attractive to many. Of course this is not a prblem for Epson as hue is adjusted as desired in the ABW driver with color inks, or in color printing with color management. Cone K7 carbon set is more of an appealing warm hue perhaps a touch rosy compared to yellow.
When the extremes Caponigro went through to find the sweet spots for each and every image in the darkroom were described to me I too was intimidated. The point was, though, no matter what I did myself there were further levels to explore resulting I amazing art should one chose to commit.
What I love about Jon's piece is that it clearly shows there are much higher levels of craft in ink in a wide variety of ways than most are aware, even in education. In fact our most recent gathering was at the national SPE conference. No one but us lowly printers were present, up all night showing work and ranting art. Not a single educator, artist, curator, no one. The bars were full though.
Anyway, I think it's great to know you can take things much farther should you chose and it is still possible to make extraordinary objects even in the world of ink.
Tyler

[sanking]

Apparently there are ways to manipulate the hue of carbon in the ink manufacture process, though it is generally warm. The Epson k inks are warm in a yellowish way, not attractive to many. Of course this is not a prblem for Epson as hue is adjusted as desired in the ABW driver with color inks, or in color printing with color management. Cone K7 carbon set is more of an appealing warm hue perhaps a touch rosy compared to yellow.

Tyler

Tyler,

All of the pure carbon pigments I have used to make carbon tissue have been on the warm side. I like warm prints, and often add a bit of burnt umber or sienna to make the color of my prints even warmer. But I might just as well go in the other direction and add violet, magenta or cyan to give a cooler tone. There is no one single hue or color that works for every image, as there is no single paper. Thankfully no one has to print for me because I would be a difficult customer to satisfy!!

I really enjoyed reading about your work. Sounds very cutting edge to me.

And yes, no question but that Jon Cone is much more than a seller of ink. Hopefully those kind of comments will not put him off contributing to this forum.

Sandy