Large petzval found (finally)

[alex from holland]

After a long search i finally found a suitable lens for my 20x20”Donchev camera.
This is a 24” early Voigtlander petzval which was produced aprox in the year 1864.
This lens is massive. I thought my 20inch Hermagis was big. This one is huge.
The glass is in execptional good shape. No separation, fungus or what so ever.
It came with one original waterhouse stop.


Some specs:
Weight :*************************8,3 kilo
Height:***************************39 cm
Diameter lens hood: **** * 19 cm
Flange diameter:************ 23 cm
Serial number:****************12540


If anyone can supply me the exact production date of this lens, please let me know.
Just to show how massive this lens is, the lens next to the Voigtlander is my Dallmeyer 3B

For pictures have a look over here : http://www.collodion-art.blogspot.co...found-her.html

[Jim C.]

That's not a lens it's a cannon !
enjoy !

[Tony Karnezis]

Wow it's like mounting a small child on a lens board.

[eddie]

1865

[Steven Tribe]

Sounds like a "Fünfzoller", size no. 8. Front lens glass diameter 138mm?
This is what I call a real Christmas present!

[CCHarrison]

Hello All,

I have a Voigtlander Serial number posted on my Petzval lens page, and that is from a longstanding "published" source. That would place Alex's lens at 1865.

However, I recently came across a Humphrey's Journal article from Feb. 1866 and in it, Frederick William von Voigtlander states that "at the present moment has [combination lenses] reached the 18000th lens."

Note the article states that 10000th was "but a short time ago." So it would seem production was seriously ramped up in the early 1860's or the list I have is just plain off....

See attached. I think I am reading it correctly....

If I read that correctly, that pushes back Petzval dating 5 or more years ! Said another way, Alex's lens might be from 1860 or so, not 1865....

Thoughts?

Dan

[Steven Tribe]

Interesting!
18,000 for early 1866 would match the other "Landmark" serial numbers given by Prochnow:
10,000 1862. Could be January, though.
16,000 1864. Could be December, though.

2-3,000 per year?
My guess for 12,540 would be February 1863.

Having looked at the published list for Voigtländer serials numbers, I have grave doubts about it being other than a guess! It records that Voightländer made exactly 600 objectives for years and years - and then made exactly 800 a year for a long period!
Using "Milestone" lenses as benchmarks is probably a better system.
I realise that CC is using "accepted figures"!

[CCHarrison]

Steven,

Factor in that Voigtlander was also now making Orthoscop lenses in addition to the Petzval "Combination" lenses....not huge production, but some which would also factor into serial numbers and production. I have seen two Orthoscop lense with serial numbers in the 7xxx range and in the 11xxx range.

Dan

[goamules]

That's great to put more fact into the dates. I've often wondered about how the early production numbers and dating lists are derived. And I'd hoped they weren't just a wild guess based on our assumptions 100 years later. I know the Dallmeyer list can be extremely accurate because Sean has the ledgers where they wrote the serial number and month/year. But some of the other makers I believe people assume linear production year after year, but we know that's not how business works. In boom times (perhaps 1855 to 1864) production was probably ramped up, with many more workers and such. After the American Civil war, there was a decline in American makers, and they probably experienced a slowdown in sales for several years. Probably production varied too. With some manufacturers, like Darlot, their serial numbers seemed to follow little order over time, so you can't even guess on dates. Thanks for supplying that little clue Dan.

[alex from holland]

Thanks all for the great help!
Strange that there is so limited info about serial numbers of Voigtlander lenses
I have a book about the history of voigtlander which contains so many details about the company, but also no serial numbers. Strange.

The production info from my dallmeyer 3b which i received from Sean shows they did not used all serial numbers. There were large gaps inbetween. Maybe Voigtlander did the same?