Possible new film

[Ben Syverson]

By all means, enlighten us, Father. Obviously the details of when and why you would use a vacuum tube are a touchy subject for you.

[Greg Blank]

Can we keep in mind the thread is about film making and asking for insight related to that?

Thanks.

[BradS]

Emulsions aren't just formulas. There's an art to it as well, and getting it right per people is probably just as much a factor in startup expense as chemical ingredients.

This is exactly what I keep thinking about. Many years ago, I did some work for a very large manufacturer of industrial and consumer goods. I worked in one of the plants where data recording products (computer tape and data cartridges) were made. There were a few very key technical people involved in the day-to-day operations...when they retired...the plant floundered for few years and finally closed (well it was spun off in there too but that is irrelavant). Nobody really had that specialized skill and experience necessary to run the operation.

Anybody who thinks they're gonna produce a commercially viable product that is competetive with current offerings from Kodak or Ilford, or even Efke and Foma without massive investment in time, money and very specific people is a fool.

[rguinter]

A film that would behave similar to Kodak IR film. In 4x5 and 8x10.

I second that. I would buy an HIE equivalent in 4x5 and 120 roll film sizes.

Bob G.

[unixrevolution]

I, personally, am tired of 400ISO being the top rated speed in 4x5. Something in the 800/1600/3200 range would have real appeal.

[Brian C. Miller]

Emulsions aren't just formulas. There's an art to it as well, and getting it right per people is probably just as much a factor in startup expense as chemical ingredients.
...
Ones all the little elves retire, their secrets often go with them.

To a certain extent, absolutely true. The Autochrome lines haven't restarted, the former Soviet film lines haven't restarted despite still having all of their elves and the equipment was shut down clean, and there's a few more cases of lines being shut down and not being able to come up again. PE has said he has no idea how to finish a modern film, and PE's retired coworker who does know how to do it wants to concentrate on fixing his house, and not chemistry.

Now, take a look at the busy elves at The Light Farm, and tell me what you think about the image on the home page. Looks like they stirred the pots well! No, these emulsions aren't duplicates of Pansubatomic XXXX, but they do work. Are they the equal of Kodak or Ilford? No, but still, the emulsions work. And as long as there are emulsions, then there will be photochemical photography.

What will the OP be doing? I have no idea, and I wish him well in his endeavors.

[Ben Syverson]

I, personally, am tired of 400ISO being the top rated speed in 4x5. Something in the 800/1600/3200 range would have real appeal.

That would be fantastic. 4x5 and 8x10 have so much surface area that you could really get some high speed without dissolving into mush.

Just think of the shots you could do handheld with an Aero Ektar and ISO 3200 film...

[E. von Hoegh]

I, personally, am tired of 400ISO being the top rated speed in 4x5. Something in the 800/1600/3200 range would have real appeal.

Like T-Max P 3200. Or even the old Royal-XX at 1250. (IIRC) T-Max 400 pushes to 800 pretty well.

[Jay DeFehr]

Jay - per film base it's all about economies of scale and setup expense. True industrial
quantities are probably the only way these roll goods can be made in the fashion
modern films need. And the petrochemicals behind them also have to be very carefully
purchased in order to prevent wild price fluctuations. If part of this equation collapses,
we might be left with only those films and formats which can be successfully coated on the most common base stocks, or else with frustrating inferior products. But in another sense, this is just survival of the fittest, and if certain film options disappear,
then the surviving ones will enjoy greater sales.

Drew,

You may well be right about that, but that's another prediction subject to too many variables to be very reliable. I'm much more optimistic about overcoming any technological challenges than I am about predicting demand. Without sufficient demand, the technology is irrelevant.

[Jay DeFehr]

And as long as there are emulsions, then there will be photochemical photography.

Agreed, by definition. But will there be demand, or even interest beyond those actually stirring the pots? There exists, even to this day, a commercial lab in Seattle that is capable of producing color carbon prints as good as any ever made by anyone, anywhere. The supremacy of carbon as a medium for making color prints is hardly in dispute, and the premium is far from unreasonable, yet how many avail themselves of this option? Not many, and probably no one here. In the end, demand, or lack thereof, trumps technology, experience, artistry, and little elves.