Possible new film

[Ben Syverson]

I don't think an Autochrome would be at all hard to make.

The problem is that they're very grainy, even in LF.

[unixrevolution]

No hard feelings Erik—I think I misinterpreted your tone. In any event, now hopefully you see some of the challenges this project faces. I have every expectation that a niche film producer could spring up in the next few years. If they're successful, I can even imagine them working their way up to an "artistic" color film.

Even Tri-X (an old fashioned, non-tabular grain film) has three distinct layers: Overcoat, Fast Agx, Slow Agx. Combining two emulsion speeds in one film improves granularity and increases exposure latitude.

None taken! I hope you understand I really am genuinely curious. Hell, here I am shooting large format, and I didn't know an f/stop from a bus stop four years ago. I do indeed see the challenges a project like making a new slide film faces, but I think if the right product comes out in the end, it will be worth it!

[Michael Kadillak]

A few years back I was similarly investigating a LF/ULF lens project to fill in the gaps in the offerings both in existing focal lengths and in price points. I am going to save you some time and resources.

You cannot fathom the time and financial resources necessary to effectively enter this domain. If you are a trust fund beneficiary I can put you in touch with those that can make this a reality. I even have a company that has an emulsion coating operation that you can contract with. If, however, you are like the rest of us working for a living then leave this for those that are already in the game. The ability to have a peaceful nights sleep on a regular basis is a wonderful thing.

[Bob Salomon]

You might want to read the latest PMA report on trends in the photo industry for 2011 before you start.

[Michael Batchelor]

Why?

It is probably possible. But I think a reasonable analogy would be that it's like expecting to qualify for a NASCAR race without ever learning to drive on city streets.

[Michael Batchelor]

I don't think an Autochrome would be at all hard to make.

The problem is that they're very grainy, even in LF.

I think Chris's experiments with the computer monitor masks were a good start toward autochromes.

[jnantz]

John,
Isn't there someone in France working on this? I've haven't heard recently how it's all going and not even the Google machine has much info. Talk about your basic Holy Grail, though. Just about as nifty a process as ever there was.

d

hi denise

i have also heard of this person .... if it is the same person i
am thinking of, there was a french website i found last year? the year before ?
that had some results, but they were quite primitive at best.
it probably all has to do with good hearty french potatoes !
all grown to the east and north of dijon, and south of the jura ...

I don't think an Autochrome would be at all hard to make.

The problem is that they're very grainy, even in LF.

hi ben

i have heard of people who have been trying to make a modern autochromes for over a decade
and come up ... empty.

i could easily live with the grain ...

maybe we can find a medium, and channel in Auguste and Louis ...

john

[Ben Syverson]

As far as autochrome goes... There are two main challenges: 1) finding or developing a panchromatic B&W reversal process, and 2) making the colored particles.

If you're willing to make a negative autochrome, then you can get rid of challenge #1. Scan it or print it to invert the image.

Challenge #2 is far easier in 2012 than 1903, because we have plastic. Just find red, green, blue (and add in CMY while you're at it) tinted plastic, grind it up, then filter it through a few metal strainers until the grains are a uniform size. Or don't filter them—maybe you want different sizes.

Flip a sheet of 400 speed B&W film over, and spray or paint the back (base) with a water resistant adhesive. Dust the grains generously over the adhesive and allow them to set and cure. Maybe do another layer of adhesive to seal them in. Shoot the film backward (emulsion side becomes the back), so you're shooting through the grains, through the base, down to the emulsion. Develop the film carefully so you don't disturb the grains too much. At the end, you should have a color negative autochrome.

Do you think that might work? I may be overlooking something. You can also do the traditional glass plates, if you can find or make them.

[jnl]

Maybe this is the site people are referring to: http://www.autochromes.fr/english/last.html
Autochromes shot as recently as 2009.

[Michael Kadillak]

Best thing we can do is to purchase existing film from the remaining manufacturers. Everyone talks about being "supportive" of these ventures and encouraging the process and then several things happen. The promoter realizes that the business model has rather lofty requirements for capital, ancillary functions not envisioned apart from the one dimensional film objective and being able to get those individuals that have been talking a big game about financially supporting the venue have been talking dimes of support when C notes at regular intervals are necessary from 1,000 times as many people that have spawned these activities.

Specifically when it cane to my lens project I needed to produce over 2,000 lenses of each focal length to get the necessary manufacturing costs down to acceptable levels and I honestly felt I could sell at best 15-20 a year if the stars all lined up correctly. Then I had to accommodate the fact that something may have gone wrong somewhere along the process that rendered them unacceptable to the buyers. Then what do you do? Capitalism is not a one dimensional equation.