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Thread: Your thoughts on printing.

  1. #1

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    Your thoughts on printing.

    Hey-o,

    I'm wondering if anyone has done a comparison between the filters in a dichro head and the what's found in a filterpack (e.g. Ilford Multigrade).

    The heads we have at school are all Beseler color heads. They seem to work decently in the #2-#3 range but I have a hard time believing that 200 magenta = a #5 Ilford filter.

    I have a set of Ilford filters on their way but I'm wondering if there's some anecdotal evidence confirming what I'm thinking.

    I thought maybe this was because the machines are old, tired and the built in filters are a little "burnt out" but I just installed a brand new head and am still finding its lacking contrast.


    Thanks
    T

  2. #2
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    Yes, it's unlikely that a dichroic head will give the same contrast as a #5 filter. You can easily test for yourself using a Stouffer negative.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  3. #3

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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    Or you could just zero every thing and stick a #5 under the lens.

  4. #4
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    Yes it is hard to believe the cheap little plastic Ilford supplies blocks as much yellow light as an expensive, precision dichroic filter but indeed it does. I have tested all my magenta dichroic filters (3 omega heads, 1 Minolta head, 1 Durst head) against a fresh Ilford #5 and with a 21 step wedge there is no significant difference. Also, a Rosco primary blue passes very little yellow, and is right up there with the others. To quantify the small differences one would probably need a step wedge with smaller than 0.15 log d intervals.

  5. #5
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    And dichroic filters do fade, especially, in my experience, magenta ones. Even with a new filter, my De Vere topped out at grade 4.5.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  6. #6

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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

  7. #7
    Greg Greg Blank's Avatar
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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    In my experience of repairing heads that is almost never true, I say almost because I have NEVER seen it to happen. It usually boils down to mechanical issues or Dichroic fog on the glass- which can not be removed. I would also state that if the filters dyes have changed and I say if, it was as the result of leaving the enlarger on, excessive exposure times, or perhaps even a (defective batch- which I doubt).

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J. De Smidt View Post
    And dichroic filters do fade, especially, in my experience, magenta ones. Even with a new filter, my De Vere topped out at grade 4.5.
    "Great things are accomplished by talented people who believe they will
    accomplish them."
    Warren G. Bennis

    www.gbphotoworks.com

  8. #8

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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    Your original post seems to indicate the heads are color heads. Several tests from the past indicate that the actual contrast range attainable is very narrow compared with filters. Some have been known to range only from about grades 1 1/2 - 3 1/2 when new.

  9. #9
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Blank View Post
    In my experience of repairing heads that is almost never true, I say almost because I have NEVER seen it to happen. It usually boils down to mechanical issues or Dichroic fog on the glass- which can not be removed. I would also state that if the filters dyes have changed and I say if, it was as the result of leaving the enlarger on, excessive exposure times, or perhaps even a (defective batch- which I doubt).
    Well, all I can say is that I couldn't get above a true grade 3.5 with my De Vere. After trying everything else I could think of, I bought new dichroic filters from Focal Point. Visually, they were significantly denser than the old filters, especially the magenta one, and with it replaced I could achieve a true grade 4.5 . With De Vere, the dichroic filters are between the halogen lights and the heat reflecting glass, and they're very close to the bulbs, and so they really get blasted.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  10. #10
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Your thoughts on printing.

    I am using a Deveere for split printing all the time, and I do get a good Dmax like that I get when using the Ilford filters on my Omega condensers.
    Of course the light is a bit more diffused which gives a smoother transition but never have I felt that I am lacking black when I dial in 200 magenta vs 5 filter.

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