Chamonix Saber

[Kuzano]

However my comments about the modified Polaroids are that you're asking a lot from a simple camera that didn't need to be super-precise to only make Polaroid size prints. Frankly I don't think the rangefinder or the front standard are up to the task for critical, wide-open work at portrait distances. And while they are compact and nice enough cameras, to spend thousands on them is rather like getting gold and leather trim in a Yugo... it just seems silly.

Well Frank, by bringing Yugo into the discussion, you raise the topic to a new level. Do you know the last two additions added to the Yugo in the last year of production. An ashtray in the rear seat, and a rear window defrost. Interestingly, it turns out the advantage of the rear window defrost was really played out in keeping your hands warm when pushing your stalled Yugo to the nearest mechanic, leaving the rear defrost unit turned on.

Perhaps a heated ground glass, or something similar on a Littman might intrigue some buyers.

I have been carving on Polaroid Pathfinders off and on for some time. It's kind of a cathartic mental masturbation combined with a peaceful complacency during long evenings. (actually achieving orgasm has been elusive).

I've narrowed it down to the fact that the Rodenstock Ysarex 127 is perhaps the best option for the Pathfinder. It is a much higher quality lens than most would admit.

I've also decided that people are trying to use WAY TOO MUCH of the original pathfinders. The door, front standard and struts, and the bellows section are the only really useful parts toward building a totable, yet mediochre camera that would attract a price of sorts. So I've cut down my most recent pathfinder to this:



Now this, with a hunk of Walnut and a set of carving knives, in front of the TV for many nights and a setback simple Graflok system, would allow for an infinity focus camera, handheld, or tripod with GG viewing. Eventually I need to actually finish one of these projects. NOTICE: I have bypassed the rangefinder. Messing with the rangefinder cam is far too labor intensive for the return.

Don't get me wrong...... I have nothing against Dean/Razzle, Alpenhouse and others getting the prices they do for their creativity. I've actually been impressed with the variety of mods that Dean has come up with. Littman is a whole nother animal of course.

And with all these people stockpiling unmolested Pathfinder camera's until the "stale date" runs out and they must be converted, it's only natural that someone would come up with a way to use up all the Polaroid Automatic camera's which is the case with the Chamonix Saber. Soo much inventory out there... is there enough time?

[lbenac]

Like a lot of photographers, I've (past tense) wanted a compact, handheld 4x5 and always paid attention to the modified Polaroids like the very expensive Littmann. I bought my first Razzledog 110 modification ~ 2004 with the common Yasarex lens and thought it performed fine. Dean Jones is also a tip-top gentleman and a very trustworthy and fair person to deal with. His cameras are priced sanely too.

However my comments about the modified Polaroids are that you're asking a lot from a simple camera that didn't need to be super-precise to only make Polaroid size prints. Frankly I don't think the rangefinder or the front standard are up to the task for critical, wide-open work at portrait distances. And while they are compact and nice enough cameras, to spend thousands on them is rather like getting gold and leather trim in a Yugo... it just seems silly.

I don't discount them out of hand at all. I even bought a second one a couple of years later to take on a trip to Italy, where it worked nicely (except for the rangefinder needing adjustment). I think they are good landscape - shoot at infinity cameras. Of course a simple wooden box would be too. And a $200 Crown Graphic is stronger, more versatile, has a better rangefinder (imho), interchangeable lenses, a better back, etc. and it is only slightly larger - a boxier form factor is the penalty (but it will close up with a 180mm in a Copal 1 lens attached so it may actually save room if you need to carry lenses separately).

That Saber does look nice, no question, I just doubt it is worth the money and it seems likely to be prone to the same complaints I already expressed with regards to the rangefinder and front end.

I also like to bust on Ebony buyers and incite class resentment and fight for those poor photographers, it's my way of sticking it to the man!

Actually you probably have gone through more pricey equipment than many

I hope that the concern regarding the front standard/bellow assembly are somewhat unfounded. That is one of the reason that I would have preferred going with a 120 instead of a 150 - it sticks less out. That said I know it is a concern with any folder in the long run.
The appeal to me is that the Saber is light (something like 900 gr.) and looks functional (easy way to attach a Grafmatic, tripod mounts on both side,...).
This is a deciding factor. If I had to carry the weight of a Crown Graphic, then I would simply take my 45N2.
The Razzle look beautiful but at close to 4 pounds, the same applies.
Inasmuch as I do mostly landscape or cityscape and that you have already taken all the available models on the West Coast , I think that the Saber will be a good alternative to the Fuji and with a larger negative.
As far as the price, been a defender of social equality, you will agree that the hours of work it likely takes to make the conversion need to be fairly rewarded even if the workers are located in China. So even if $1,300 is a little bit on the high side, when the price of the lens as been taken out, I certainly don't find it unreasonable.

Cheers,

Luc

[lbenac]

Don't get me wrong...... I have nothing against Dean/Razzle, Alpenhouse and others getting the prices they do for their creativity. I've actually been impressed with the variety of mods that Dean has come up with. Littman is a whole nother animal of course.

Was that not the guy that put a patent on converting Polaroid from Polaroid to 4x5 and was saying that nobody could do that but him?

My take on the price of these camera is that you are not paying so much for the base material but for the hours of work - which I find fair. Specially as I do not have hours to spend on such a project.

Hopefully you can complete your project and have the satisfaction to use your own work which will be even more rewarding.

Cheers,

Luc

[Frank Petronio]

Yes the Littmann saga is entertaining. Better to Google it than to try to repeat it here and draw renewed attention to him.

[Kuzano]

Actually you probably have gone through more pricey equipment than many

I hope that the concern regarding the front standard/bellow assembly are somewhat unfounded. That is one of the reason that I would have preferred going with a 120 instead of a 150 - it sticks less out. That said I know it is a concern with any folder in the long run.

Cheers,

Luc

Actually Luc, this is not quite correct. the opening on the bellows on the Polaroids is actually only 3X4 inches (approximately) at the rear opening, which does not allow shooting 4X5 at the normal film plane opening for Polaroid. So, you have to move the GG and film holder opening for 4X5 back somewhat. It turns out that using a 150mm lens at the stock location and making the proper setback for the GG/Film plane allows the angle from the center of the lens to all four sides of the 4X5 opening appropriate.

Close measurement of focal length and correct parallelism are crucial here.

In the case of the setback, in fact, the front lens standard would have to be moved to the rear to correspond to the new placement of the GG/film holder to achieve the 4X5, if one wanted to use the stock Rodenstock Ysarex 127. It should also be noted that the Ysarex is also a Lanthanum coated lens, much like the highly sought Apo Lanthar 105 on the Bessa II, which runs those cameras up to many thousands of dollars. Last Apo Lanthar Bessa II I saw sold, brought over $7000 dollars. Another plus for the Ysarex.

Bottom line on your comment, using a 150 should not involve any more stress or weakness on the front struts or standard. In fact, I consider that the struts/front standard on a Pathfinder would be far more stable than conversion of any of the Polaroid Automatic bodies as in the Saber.

Furthermore, in my personal observation, the struts on either of the Polaroids is likely to be more stable than many of the lighter wood field cameras, such as Tachihara, Ikeda, Wista, etc. Heck, Frank, perhaps even the Ebony cameras.

[lbenac]

Bottom line on your comment, using a 150 should not involve any more stress or weakness on the front struts or standard.

Excellent than it just the looks and does not change the reliability.

In fact, I consider that the struts/front standard on a Pathfinder would be far more stable than conversion of any of the Polaroid Automatic bodies as in the Saber.

This makes sense to me and certainly justifies the weight difference.

Furthermore, in my personal observation, the struts on either of the Polaroids is likely to be more stable than many of the lighter wood field cameras, such as Tachihara, Ikeda, Wista, etc. Heck, Frank, perhaps even the Ebony cameras.

Good news, it means that my Saber might live longer...

Thanks for all the info

Luc

[goodfood]

Hi, Ibenac, I agree what you want. I'm more or less same equipment as you. I have a light weight woodfield,a Super Technika with cam 135mm lens which is too heavy. So I bought a 110A and plan to change it's back for lighter weight and easy to use. May be after my retire. I work in South Burnaby,BC, Canada.

[lbenac]

Hey, now we are really neighbor :-)

[Fred L]

I saw those Sabers and had a momentary lust for them but then remembered I had a Byron conversion http://salihonbashome.blogspot.com/p...n-service.html.

The beauty of the Byron, aside from being able to actually get close to the viewfinder while wearing glasses, is the very slim profile, esp compared to some other conversions out there, such as the one that shall not be named. Daniel has done a really great job customizing the camera so that it's much more than a Graflok back attached to the camera.

You just need to save your pennies for this conversion though

[Allen in Montreal]

...... it's much more than a Graflok back attached to the camera.

That looks sweet indeed!