Reeking film holders

[B.S.Kumar]

I'm a little confused. Sal says an 8x10 holder with metal slides had the smell, then later he says the darkslides smelled and the holder bodies were victims. Toyo themselves say the darkslides were the problem. Sal no longer has the holder with the metal slide...

Kumar

[Sal Santamaura]

...you're saying is the holder "body" will lose its stink after an airing-out period, and the sheaths are to blame for the odour...

No, please re-read what I wrote.

The only 8x10 reeking holder I "experienced" was back in 2004 and had metal dark slides (not "sheaths"). Those metal dark slides weren't the source of the smell. As noted, I returned that holder for a refund, so couldn't say how long it might take for separately stored metal dark slides to "air out," but expect it would be very quick, since they're non-porous, unlike the plastic dark slides of 4x5 Toyo holders.

...the sheaths will likely never lose their bad smell...

Again, your 8x10 Toyo dark slides (I assume) are metal and, if stored separately, would likely lose their bad smell rather quickly. The main holder body, however, is the smell's source, and it will likely never lose its bad smell.

...At this point...the holders are ok, as I previously reported, but not ok enough that I'd leave them in my camera bag, or want to forget one in my camera back. While they are no longer repulsive to my olfactory senses, they do still emit something, and I don't want that transmitted to any other gear...

Please re-read the post I referred to concerning relative humidity (RH). Looking at RH records for Ottawa over the last few days I see you've gone from readings in the teens up to near 100% right now. I suspect there's been absolutely no change in your holders' offgassing whatsoever; instead, your ability to smell them has diminished radically as the RH skyrocketed. The next time RH falls (think all winter when the heat is running), expect to be holding your nose again. Also, I'd still be wary of putting film near the holders, whether human olfaction can detect the problem at a given time or not.

,,,I'll be sticking with Toyos, despite this episode. They've always served me very well, and I wouldn't trust any other film holder to be as consistently excellent.

I agree with respect to older, non-reeking Toyo holders. However, have you used any reeking Toyo holders? Did they "serve you well" in terms of potential negative effects on film? If so, enjoy. If not, please let us know how it goes in the future with "the stinkers."

[Sal Santamaura]

Well, I've lived in Bombay, and now Japan, both of which are humid, so maybe my nose isn't as sensitive as those of people who live in drier climates and/or have sommelier's noses, but what can I say. I bow to your superior nose..

While I admit to being more sensitive than the average person to smells, please don't interpret what I've posted as any claim to "superiority." Your (i.e. Kumar's) ability to detect an odor, regardless of how it may fall on the scale of human olfaction, will vary radically depending on relative humidity (RH) at any given moment. Take a trip to the desert and you'll find that an aroma you can't detect at all in Bombay or Japan is suddenly incredibly intense.

...My understanding is that Toyo outsources the holders to a Japanese supplier, and does not make them. Also, they seem to be aware of the problem that were caused 10~15 years ago. So if your holders were bought new at that time (2004 and 2008), yes, they would smell...

Do you know whether Toyo ever made its holders itself? Or was holder part molding always outsourced?

...So if your holders were bought new at that time (2004 and 2008), yes, they would smell. But currently produced holders do not smell...

To what does Toyo attribute the "improvement?" Did it levy an additional "non-stink" requirement on its outsourced holder supplier after the problem became apparent during that time frame? Change suppliers? Or? Inquiring mind wants to know.

I own all the Toyo holders, both 4x5 and 8x10, I can use. Having retired and no longer being able to afford experiments conducted out of idle curiosity, I'm not willing to purchase additional new Toyo holders now just to see whether they smell. Ideally, one of our members who lives in a desert climate should order one or more brand new ones and share her/his "sniff test" results (under low-RH conditions) here.

I'm a little confused. Sal says an 8x10 holder with metal slides had the smell, then later he says the darkslides smelled and the holder bodies were victims. Toyo themselves say the darkslides were the problem. Sal no longer has the holder with the metal slide...

To repeat: the 8x10 holder main body, not the metal dark slides, is where that holder's smell originated. It was the pair of 4x5 holders' dark slides that stunk up those holder bodies. In other words, 8x10 Toyo bodies and 4x5 Toyo dark slides contained the reeking constituent(s).

[dpn]

I have a new set of 4x5 Toyo holders on the way from B&H. After reading this thread, I can't wait to smell them.

[Sal Santamaura]

I have a new set of 4x5 Toyo holders on the way from B&H. After reading this thread, I can't wait to smell them.

I look forward to you posting your observations in this thread. Please let us know whether the dark slides are smooth-glossy or textured-matt.

Annual average relative humidity records for Sacramento show afternoon lows around 30% in June through August. That should be dry enough to reveal whether the plastic now used by Toyo's vendor has been changed for the better.

[biedron]

I recently purchased a new Toyo 8x10 holder through Kumar. According to my wife, it does not reek. (I would concur, but have a poor sense of smell so I'm not a good "witness")

Bob

[dpn]

My new holders arrived. :-)

In my opinion, the holders have a moderately strong plasticky smell. It's a very long way from "reeking," although it's certainly noticeable at a little distance. 40% humidity in my office as I type.

The darkslides aren't glossy -- much closer to matte/luster.