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Thread: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

  1. #1

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    Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    This piece came was in the BJP today, is a bit more encouraging than most recent articles, although the promise to make film as long as it is profitable could be seen as good or bad depending on when that date is.

    Plus they should ask Jonathan Eastland to sit on the board


    http://www.bjp-online.com/british-jo...ofitable-kodak

  2. #2
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    I can see TMY surviving and Portra in color. They've already cancelled Ektar in sheets,
    and it obviously can't be cut from the same stock as roll films. It's probably the bitter
    end for their E100G sheet film too, or any E6 sheet film for that matter. They're pricing
    themselves completely off the market. Sad, because it's made on a far better base
    material than Fuji Provia (only Astisa 100F and Velvia 100F are made on polyester, and
    now Astia has been dropped). So it looks like a sad day for the stock photographers
    who depended on LF chromes. Jillions of shots have already been, of course, and most
    of the stuff that does gets published in horrendously boring and predictable anyway.
    And for a four-inch wide image in a travel magazine, who needs that much detail
    anyway? End of an era, perhaps ... or maybe the folks who already hold a stockpile of
    appealing calendar images will have a bit less upstart competition. Who knows?

  3. #3

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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    The most telling Kodak quote in that article:


    "...we know that there are hundreds of passionate fans of film..."


    Not millions, not thousands, but hundreds!

  4. #4
    Large Format Rocks ImSoNegative's Avatar
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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    The most telling Kodak quote in that article:


    "...we know that there are hundreds of passionate fans of film..."


    Not millions, not thousands, but hundreds!
    Wow! now i really feel special
    "WOW! Now thats a big camera. By the way, how many megapixels is that thing?"

  5. #5

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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    Yes, it's still profitable. That's not news, anyone who takes a few minutes to look at Kodak's financial statements filed with the Securities Exchange Commission over the years (readily available on line) can see that. The problem with film from Kodak's standpoint is that the revenues and profits have been declining by about 15% - 20% a year on average for at least the last six years, probably longer, with no end in sight.

    And the problem from our standpoint as still photographers is that Kodak's financial reports don't separate film for still photography and film for movies. In the past both have been lumped together for financial reporting purposes. So it's impossible to know whether both types of film are profitable or only one. And if only one, which one.

    FWIW, I posted the revenues and profits of the Film/Entertainment Group for the last five or so years with my January 12 message here. I'm surprised that anyone writing an article about the subject for publication would simply talk about what someone from Kodak said without bothering to look at Kodak's financial statements.
    Brian Ellis
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    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    The most telling Kodak quote in that article:


    "...we know that there are hundreds of passionate fans of film..."


    Not millions, not thousands, but hundreds!
    I call BS on that. I don't know how many there are, but it seems there are tons of hipsters on flickr using film. All the holga nerds, leica nerds, etc. I don't know who's using Kodak but plenty of people are using film. Might not be enough but hundreds is ridiculous.

  7. #7

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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    According to the Hollywood Reporter and other industry sources, the film division is profitable because the profit margin on film is very high for Kodak. But it's really only 'profitable' providing they sell enough film to keep the factory open, and the workers working, etc.. That will be the issue. Is there enough demand (despite the profitable per unit markup) to keep the product on the market? The people handling the Chapter 11 process may say no, and try to sell it off or close it down.

    Film per unit may be profitable but its future is extremely dim as a viable industry and I'm not sure who would spend the capital needed to 'invest' in its 'future' (it doesn't have a 'future' as a growth market.) It's an unavoidable fact: film use has indeed dropped precipitously.

    Kodak seems to be making the same mistake over again with their focus on consumer and commercial printing. It can be a profitable per unit product since the printer business model is set up to profit off the consumables, but the printing industry is not considered a 'growth' market these days. Plus Mutoh, Agfa, Roland, Mimaki, HP, Epson, Canon have a strong hold on the market. What kind of share will Kodak be able to get? Perez came from printers (HP) and that's what he seems to know best. But it might be shortsighted and focused on a quick profit from printer ink which is like the profit from film ('give away the cameras and sell them the film' which was Eastman's business plan from the very beginning.)

    In an April 2011 article in the HR, Roger Deakins (True Grit, No Country for Old Men, etc.) who has been adamant about shooting on film for aesthetic reasons, is now a convert and will using the digital Arri Alexa for his next film. A lot of DPs are very excited about the new Alexa. There are still many DPs who prefer film but the current drop in film use is having a huge impact on both Kodak and Fuji (Fuji also manufactures motion picture film stock.) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ng-film-178661

    So don't assume the motion picture industry will 'save' film, because it will not. And Arri, Aaton, Panavision, are no longer investing any R+D in analog. The have CEASED making film cameras as of October 2011. All the products they are now producing will be digital. One of the big issues for production companies going to digital is the workflow. There has always been a traditional workflow with film and digital has presented new challenges. Companies like Arri and Panavision have been focusing a lot of their energies on developing digital workflows for the industry, from capture to digital projection (theaters are transitioning over to digital and so that's also a lot of film based product that is no longer needed.)

    As far as still photography, B+W film (color will probably disappear entirely) will be a hobbyist niche product just like alternative processes have been. And users of those early process were probably discussing the demise of their materials when silver gelatin film first came on board. Paradigms shift and sometimes you just have to accept it and move on.

  8. #8
    Richard M. Coda
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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    The most telling Kodak quote in that article:


    "...we know that there are hundreds of passionate fans of film..."


    Not millions, not thousands, but hundreds!
    Raise your print prices! We are now a limited collectible!
    Photographs by Richard M. Coda
    my blog
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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    It's kind of disappointing to see cinematographers using a digital cinema camera that doesn't do at least 4K (the Arri is NOT a 4K camera, but it puts out a very nice image... has a nice "big" super 35mm sensor. I've seen a few TV shows shot with it). Why not choose RED Epic or Scarlet?

    If I was starting out, it would be RED 4K/5K cameras all the way. If I was established, I'd want to shoot on IMAX 70mm film.

  10. #10
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Kodak Film Division still Profitable - BJP Article

    You need to read between the lines. Forcing the entire stream toward digital projection means either the last mom n' pop theaters will be forced out of business
    or will have to take out huge remodeling loans from the folks monopolizing the
    whole system. The locals do the hard work then lose the business to guess who?
    Same thing happens when gas stations are required by the refiners to become Mini
    Marts, then unexpectedly their own cost of gas is suddenly raised and no one stops
    there for gas. They defalult on their contract and the refiner takes over the franchise outright. In the long run, the same studio conglomerates who makes the bulk of movies will own dedicated theatres obligated to show their own productions, even more than today. This is a huge incentive besides just simpifying the technical
    logistics. But all that has little to do with large format film. We get our stuff coated completely separate. And at some point, accoutants are going to have to isolate
    these various aspects of production, and try to juggle the ability to keep sufficient
    volume in necessary materials.

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