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Thread: Defending the Darkroom in Education

  1. #21

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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    I think the only chance yo have to convince him otherwise is through the parents. You need to get them agitated enough that they call for a meeting with the principal and fight for their kids education.
    Juergen

  2. #22

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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    Lots of good replies. Nothing to add other than to point out the value of private schools in all aspects of education.

    If your principle is new, I suspect that his tasks include cleaning house and revamping the curriculum and the faculty. So I don't think a pissing match of pitting parents against principal will be good for your job security. The arguments about hybrid workflow, limited film education as part of a digital curriculum as being advanced, low cost to the school, etc. are bett arguments in that they might jive with the principals agenda. Plus, maybe the principal needs some non-toxic examples of "compromise" as he goes about his business so it would be a political win for him rather than a low-yield shitstorm.

  3. #23

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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    Well not so much Federal control as national standards and other "carrots" tied to funding. If you don't meet standards then you don't get the money, and the school systems need their money to pay for all the other mandated programs.

    For instance, my sister-in-law teaches AP English in NY. Next year she has to teach teach 70% non-fiction at the expense of literature, so that the school qualifies for a Gates Foundation grant.

    While the motivation is well-intentioned, as are the "No Child Left Behind" programs, the implementation and unintended consequences are usually and, at least to me, predictably worse outcomes.

  4. #24

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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    Michael Garcia at Basha High school in Chandler AZ runs a robust analogue program, he might be of some help. You can google the school name and photography and get contact info.

  5. #25
    Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sawyer View Post
    ...
    I'm trying to come up with some "vocational/trade" reasons to keep the darkroom around as a small part of the program. Any ideas or resources?
    Photolithography is a fundamental technology used in making computers. Giving students a basic understanding and tangible experience in optical processing can benefit future pursuits in many technical fields. In this video by AMD about making CPUs it's said
    the key to this process is a solid mastery of light
    .

    ...Mike

  6. #26

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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by michael slade View Post
    . . .

    A good digital print strives to mimic the finest gelatin silver prints. Without an understanding of how to make a fine gelatin silver print most ink-jet printers don't know what they are attempting to make. . . .
    Not at all. A good digital print strives to improve on the best gelatin silver prints. The old darkroom silver prints weren't the final word in what can be done in making a print. Far from it. As someone who printed in a darkroom for many years and has now been printing digitally for many years, I can tell you that I look at my old darkroom prints and almost always see ways by which I could improve them by printing digitally using materials and techniques that weren't available or weren't feasible in a darkroom. Anyone who views the purpose of printing digitally as nothing more than duplicating what could be done in a darkroom is taking a very narrow and very limiting view of what can be done by printing digitally.

    I can't speak for "most" ink-jet printers (any more than you can). But every serious photographer I know who prints digitally certainly knows what he or she is attempting to make.

    I do think it's a shame when schools close down their darkrooms. But Mark's principal isn't necessarily a "narrow minded ahole." He just takes a different view of the purpose of teaching photography than Mark does and than most here do. He's thinking of it as a vocation, a job, rather than as an art form. That's a very normal dichotomy in photography education - there's schools that teach "commercial" photography and there's schools that teach photography as an art form and there isn't a lot of overlap in my experience. It's a pretty distinct difference in the fundamental purpose of different photography programs.

    Unfortunately when it comes down to a competition for money and space between art and vocation the vocational people will win more often than not. The best (most elaborate, most expensive) equipment and facilities for teaching photography I've ever seen were at Daytona Beach Community College in Florida. They put the facilities at the art department of the large State university where I taught to shame. And I was told that the reason they could pay for it all was that "vocational" programs were eligible for extensive State and federal funding that wasn't available to university art programs.

    If the principal at Mark's school is like the people who made decisions at the university where I taught, I'd approach it on a financial basis. Pick a favorable period of maybe three years or five years (not just one year). Compare the cost of buying computers, upgrading software, paying the tech people, etc. with the cost of the darkroom (try to minimize the fact that much of the digital stuff would be bought even without the photography uses).

    Hopefully the costs of the darkroom compare favorably. Then if feasible and relevant, offer to reduce the space taken up by the darkroom, compromise a little if possible - give up some of the space if the digital people or others are after it - but not all of it. And finally, try to get the principal to consider the view that the sole value of education in general and a darkroom in particular isn't in preparing a student for a specific job. Which is certainly not an easy thing to do at this time. But if it can't be done it's going to be hard to justify a darkroom because a darkroom certainly isn't a source of specific job training today.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  7. #27
    LF/ULF Carbon Printer Jim Fitzgerald's Avatar
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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    I'm so glad that my 3 boys were home schooled! They have all graduated from major 4 year universities with honors. The education system in this country sucks! I think the comment about not preparing them for college needs to be addressed with the parents and students. Have the students get involved and protest. Petition the school board to replace the principal. You have to play politics or unfortunately get out of the F'd Up system. Sad state but it is only about numbers and funding, not about the kids anymore. If you want your kids to be successful you will have to tell them that it is up to them to change things. They need to refuse to go along! After all the principal said they are not going to college, right!!

  8. #28
    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sawyer View Post
    (BTW, I teach about 80% digital, 20% analog/hybrid.)

    I'm trying to come up with some "vocational/trade" reasons to keep the darkroom around as a small part of the program. Any ideas or resources?
    This really doesn't seem to be about vocation, it seems to be about reclaiming the space used by the darkroom. How big is it, and what purpose will the space serve after being decommissioned from being a darkroom?

    The program is 80% digital now, so the school already has the computers, etc., for the digital workflow. This part is a red herring.

    The part that isn't a red herring is that a high school strictly produces workers ready for basic manual labor. Uh, hello? People who only have a high school education usually don't have much of an upwardly-mobile future. The main light bulb that should go off in the parent's heads is that this principal doesn't care about their children's future, or that he wants to consign them to a future of low wages.

    If this principal really cares about the student's future, then business courses should be a requirement. How to open and run a small business, etc. Entrepreneurship is the greatest building block of this country.

    BTW, take a look in the Lounge about photographer's wages. A $13/hr job isn't much, and basic digital photography won't be a reason to advance further. For a person to earn a higher wage, there has to be some kind of value-added proposition.

  9. #29

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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sawyer View Post
    By way of introduction, I teach high school photography at a rural public high school in Arizona...

    Our principal told me today that the darkroom will be shut down immediately, and only digital photography will be taught. (I was also told in writing that teaching analog photography had "no industrial value" and that teaching it was "unacceptable and lacked professionalism".)

    My students are quite upset about it; several were in tears over it. (Hey, what's high school without a little drama?) I have several who are planning on attending college photo programs, and the four closest colleges that have photo programs have analog as a major part of the program. I asked whether I wasn't supposed to prepare students for college, and was told no, I was to prepare them for a trade right out of school.

    (BTW, I teach about 80% digital, 20% analog/hybrid.)

    I'm trying to come up with some "vocational/trade" reasons to keep the darkroom around as a small part of the program. Any ideas or resources?
    Mark.
    I am sorry to hear this.

    But I get confused, or the new headmaster is the same...

    If he wants you to train the students for work - and your analouge teaching is a merely 20%, then I'd try to explain to him, that the analouge photography is essential - or at least very helpful for the students if they want a job!

    It is all about tools. Why take away important tools for a job?
    I have taught analouge techniques at highly modern (all digital) commercial photographer teams. Because they wanted it!

    Fashion/commercial photography is about finding unique ways of displaying products, and in the analouge world (or at least in the hybrid one) you can make images which would be impossible in the digital world.

    I know of photographers that use wet plate for fashion...

    "Everybody" can make digital images - not so analouge.

    Your claim could be closing down the analouge department will lessen the chances for the students to get jobs. The more they know - the better "equipped" they are.

    :::::::::
    the world is strange... here I thought everything was possible in the States..
    We have here in DK a government department which takes care of health and safety issues for workers.
    They have been here, and tried to close down our analouge department - but didn't know what headmaster I have.... She scared them away!

  10. #30

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    Re: Defending the Darkroom in Education

    I'd check the next years budget---if it's approved, then you'll see what ANY sort of convincing will get you---absolutely nowhere.

    if there's no darkroom in there, forget it.

    anyways--just drop the issue--if you utilize any school time working on something that is NOT authorized (like finding justifications to keep something that is now proven to be useless), then THAT will be used as proof positive that YOU are not doing YOUR job.....

    the people that put the new boss there did it for a reason--perhaps to poke the staff and see what angers them....then the angry people waste their time on what they are NOT supposed to be working on...then this is a justification to fire them and hire someone that you "had in mind" for the job...or that the school board had in mind

    you don't think the new boss has friends with sons or daughters just out of art school that need a job?

    You keep with the "old and useless" technology and YOU will then be proven to be as old and useless that the technology you defend has proven to be to them.

    This makes you NOT qualified for your job.

    check the budget--see what theyhave in mind...

    I'd go with the flow and not waste any school resources going AGAINST the school.

    chicago just went through and re-classified all the teachers here--art teachers in particular--the jobs got re-classified and the people that had the jobs suddently found themselves NOT qualified to do the same work.

    You wanna be "not qualified" to teach because you want to teach "proven useless old technology"?

    drop it...don't listen to anybody here telling you to defend anything--you think any of the cheap a@@es here is gonna give one penny to get you a new sleeping bag cause you're homeless in winter , you gotta nother think coming....

    they WILL help you out by taking your prime equpment off your hands so you can eat for a week....of course..pennies on the dollar, cause you're desparate.

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