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Thread: Market size of amateur large format photographers?

  1. #1

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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    I'm doing some research. What do you think the size of the market is (in North America) for advanced amateur and fine art large format 4x5 photographers? The type of people who can afford to buy $1000 plus 4x5 field cameras like Technikas, Toyos, Canhams, Arcas and Ebonies. Let's not include the overlap from commercial photographers using studio cameras like Sinar Xs and P2s; hardcore ULF users; or all the fine people who get by cheaply with Graphics and such. In other words, how many people have the money and desire to buy a nice 4x5 field camera? Thank you.

  2. #2
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    Given how many people can afford current middle and top level SLRs and lenses (a Canon 10D body being $1500), I would say the number that can afford a new 4x5" camera is pretty large, and probably not closely related to the number that would actually purchase one.

  3. #3

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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    I am assuming that your enquiry is based in consideration of some aspect of building/marketing a camera. If that is the case then I think that David's reply is on target. If one were to consider going down that road then benefit would be afforded by studying the product line, market strategy, and business philosophy of Phillips, Canham, and Wisner.

  4. #4

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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    I don't think the actual numbers sold of field cameras is anywhere as high as one might think. Recent articles about the Wisner/Picker/Ritter dispute on the Wisner-designed Zone VI camera should give you some idea, as extensive information about orders and serial numbers is given. Even cameras which are, by outside and probably unimformed, perception very successful (and are perceived by their makers to be successful), don't sell in large numbers if you go by the serial numbers. In terms of what the market is, there just aren't large numbers of people who even know what they are (for starters) feel a need to do photographically what they can do with a view camera (get a big negative, move the plane of focus relative to the film, etc.) and have the patience to learn how to do it well and put up with the inconvenience of carrying the gear and setting it up. Also consider that the LF equipment tends to last a long, long time, so you as a manufacturer are faced with 60 year old Deardorffs and Masterviews which can compete with your product. You have to offer something new, a unique weight/price package, etc. to make it, and even then I would think selling 100 cameras a year in the early going would take some work.

  5. #5

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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    We ALL know how to make a million dollars in the large format business.





    Start with 5 million.

    I don't suspect there is ever going to be a great market for LF equipment, especially new. Most of us who shoot, shoot with what we have, can find, build from scratch. Sure, some of dream of a new Horseman or whatever but we will get by on our old orbits, speed graphics, hand me down three times Arca Swisses... When my achievement level reaches the point that a 40 year old Ektar or my 20 year old Fujinon lens won't do what I want it to do, I'll go looking for another upscale lens, and yes, it will probably be used.

    There are some of us who can afford to buy new equipment, I see them in the better camera stores here in the bay area, but not like the hordes who buy all that 35mm, MF, and digital stuff.

    Just my opinion of course.

    tim in san jose

  6. #6
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    I've been interested in the same thing. I've asked that same question on various forums. Like here, the only replies I've seen have been anything but numbers. I'd help you if I could, but that information is apparently hard to come by, and I don't have it.

    You might contact View Camera magazine. They might have a clue based on their circulation numbers. They might not want to share that information for free, however.

    If you find out any useful information, please let us know.

    Bruce Watson

  7. #7

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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    The circulation of magazines is public knowledge (look in the annual statement.) Maybe a useful starting point would be how many large format photographers are viewing this forum?

  8. #8
    Ted Harris's Avatar
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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    Frank if ya really want to do it here's how:



    There are several ways you can attack the question and come up with a useful number. You are going to have to do the legwork yourself or hire someone to do it for you. Here are the steps I would take if I were doing this for a client:





    1) Contact the manufacturers and/or distributors of field cameras in the US. Since it is a relatively small universe this should not be difficult and I assume you know who they are. Ask each of them to share sales numbers with you for a recent past year. Asking for current data could make some of them nervous. Even if you only get some of them to respond you will have a lot of what you need.
    2) Supplement the information in 1 above with similar information from retailers who buy/import direct and you know are major players (e.g. Badger, Midwest and B&H).
    3) Figure a way to appropriately discount the numbers to account to sales to professionals. You might be able to do that by getting information from PPA and/or other associations.
    4) Get total subscription/sales information for View Camera Magazine and see how well that number tallies with your discounted number in 3 above. My guess is that if these two numbers are close then you have your answer or the ballpark for it anyway. Discussions I have had with Steve Simmons indicate that most of the readers of View Camera fit your category and the camera sales numbers just give you another checkpoint.





    I really think that is all you need for a rough estimate. If I were going to get sophisticated then I would check sheet film sales, lens sales and even design a small scale sample survey to use with members of this and the other large format for a online. Finally I would develop a weighted scoring technique for all of the date. However, my gut tells me I would still come out with a number that is within 20% of the number in 4 above and that it would be a number in the thousands, no higher.

  9. #9

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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    You also have to consider the lifespan of the existing gear. To speak for myself; I've been a large-format user for 23+ years. Professionally, my equipment has been supplied by my employer. (They did buy a new 4x5 several years ago.) Personally, in that time I've bought two new 4x5 field cameras. One is still mine and the first one sold to a friend. Neither camera is close to being worn out or obsolete, and both have earned their keep. I wouldn't mind a new camera, there are one or two that I'd like to use, but they wouldn't make better pictures by themselves; so I'll stick with my 11-year old workhorse. Not what the manufacturers want to hear! Even with the 'renaissance' of large-format photography since I've been involved, I think the market for any view camera today is quite small.

  10. #10

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    Market size of amateur large format photographers?

    Frank,

    Going by how low my co-eds are wearing their jeans this term, I'd say foreget about market analysis. Just get Brittney Spears to pose with "X" camera and you'll be selling 'em like hot cakes!
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

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