Commenting on Photographic Art

[neil poulsen]

One of the benefits that this forum provides is the ability to get input about photographic art from other artists in the field.

But, it's interesting. Sometimes the number of comments on comments can equal the number of comments on the work itself.

Does that confuse disagreement with differences of opionions? In these threads, is it really necessary to defend our own opinions, or correspondingly to be placed in the position of having to defend our own opinions? Wouldn't it help to accept at the outset that people's opinions will differ?

I wonder if threads on people's work would benefit by people stating their opinions in a respectful manner and leaving it at that? In that way, the input itself would stand out and not be diluted by comments about other comments.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Neil,

I agree with your post and I hope others read it.

I think the current trend of going after people for their points of view stops many from participating ( I know I have all but given up). The current thread on Michael Smith's new work is a fine example.

Thanks for the post.

[Struan Gray]

One of the things I like most about this forum is that it is possible to have conversations here - threads are not just a bunch of people posting past each other.

A few flame wars and a smattering of grumpy grannies seems a small price to pay.

[tim atherton]

The problem with that is that it's not really a discussion or a debate - it really ends up being more a sort of scorecard tally

10 people say this work is awful, 15 say it's great, 2 say they aren't sure - so the final result is... the work a bit this side of okay.

My feeling is that such an approach will just encourage more comment along the lines of: "this work is pointless therefore it's worthless" or " this work is by the best photographer since sliced bread therefore it's great"

If peoples opinions differ, then is there no value in trying to simply find out why? Rather than just tallying up the opinions "yeah" and "nay"?

I also don't think you can always easily separate out how people comment and chose to phrase their comments from what people are saying. The two are frequently linked.

And as often as not I have found that hashing back and forth has at time helped me clarify what i have been trying to say or at other times someone has said something along the lines of "okay, I see what you mean now"

So essentially, no - I think such an approach will actually lead to greater polarisation.

Now I also think this can be done without people acting like arseholes and regularly making personal attacks.

The problem isn't necessarily making "comments about comments" rather there's a fairly thin line between vigorous and lively debate and discussion and being, say, a browbeating bully who chooses personal attack as a first response. But it's a clear line.

[Asher Kelman]

The problem with that is that it's not really a discussion or a debate - it really ends up being more a sort of scorecard tally

10 people say this work is awful, 15 say it's great, 2 say they aren't sure - so the final result is... the work a bit this side of okay.

My feeling is that such an approach will just encourage more comment along the lines of: "this work is pointless therefore it's worthless" or " this work is by the best photographer since sliced bread therefore it's great"

If peoples opinions differ, then is there no value in trying to simply find out why?

Hi Tim,

I think you have recognized something very important. People who give critique should explain why they have such an opinion of a photograph. Is it that is does not interest me, makes me feel angry? "It's in the style of XYZ but poorly executed (giving specifics)" or, for example, "It's orginal, I am interested but have issues with PQRS"!

Now for this critique to be meaningful, the artist needs to have presented the photograph as part of a body of work, a theme or with a title that gives guidance or some frame of reference to the work. Also the photographer must have their own steadfast vision of what he/she intended to portray and how much of the image they wanted to show, in what manner, style, emphasis to be printed in what manner and size.

The one person this has to work for is the photographer and he/she must jealosly defend his/her vision yet be open to feedback!

Then the number of "yays" and "nays" doesn't matter!

Asher

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

One of the benefits that this forum provides is the ability to get input about photographic art from other artists in the field.

But, it's interesting. Sometimes the number of comments on comments can equal the number of comments on the work itself.

Does that confuse disagreement with differences of opionions? In these threads, is it really necessary to defend our own opinions, or correspondingly to be placed in the position of having to defend our own opinions? Wouldn't it help to accept at the outset that people's opinions will differ?

I wonder if threads on people's work would benefit by people stating their opinions in a respectful manner and leaving it at that? In that way, the input itself would stand out and not be diluted by comments about other comments.

LOL.....keep on wishing, as long as there are a couple of guys who insist on being the art and photography apreciation police, who insist they are more sophisticated and knowlegeable than the rest of us and who think the way to garner respect and show how much they know is by arguing every opinion that is not similar to theirs, this will continue to happen.

The best thing to do is ignore them. Sadly, I did not follow my advice for a long time but since I started doing it, this place has become much more enjoyable to me.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

I think you have recognized something very important. People who give critique should explain why they have such an opinion of a photograph.

Most of the people who do so in this forum explain the reason for their opinion. The problem rises when a couple of people disagree with the reasons for that opinion and go after the person who presented the opinon, and will argue him to death just to prove they are right. In the end it becomes boring and annoying, some have patience some, like me, like to tell them to go **** themselves. In the end it is best to ignore them.

[paulr]

If peoples opinions differ, then is there no value in trying to simply find out why? Rather than just tallying up the opinions "yeah" and "nay"?

absolutely. i've always felt that the thumbs up/thumbs down type of criticism is at best boring, and at worse a complete distraction from what the work is about.

i admire commentary that's illuminating--even if all it illuminates is someone's personal connection with (or difficulty with) the work. it can help me see it with more depth or more clarity. but i would never assume that other people care if i like the work or not. that's about as interesting as if i like broccoli or not.

[jetcode]

Now for this critique to be meaningful, the artist needs to have presented the photograph as part of a body of work, a theme or with a title that gives guidance or some frame of reference to the work. Also the photographer must have their own steadfast vision of what he/she intended to portray and how much of the image they wanted to show, in what manner, style, emphasis to be printed in what manner and size.

what is meaningful?
does an artist need to follow guidelines?
does an artist require vision to express?

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

what is meaningful?
does an artist need to follow guidelines?
does an artist require vision to express?

And if he/she has vision, is he/she necessarily expressing something?