fumes

[johnielvis]

when I did smaller rolls in a tank, this wasn't so obvious, BUT

now bleaching large sheets in trays, there's a lot of exposed reaction surface there....bleaching with dichromate bleach, I was given to understand, produces no toxic fumes--supposedly just ozone/oxygen.

but I'm suspecting now that I'm smelling ozony smells PLUS something....and I'm thinking that maybe there's something else going on that's producing like chromic oxide fumes----needless to say--I dont' want to be breathing that stuff at all--SO..

anybody in printing industry that did dot etching or anyone that worked in a motion picture lab--any ideas what that smell is....if it's pure ozone..well--that's not good to breathe either...but at least it's merely corrosive instead of corrosive and cancer causing and heavy metal poisoning....

any OTHER dangers---doing 4 sheets of 11x14 i like 8 rolls of film---and all right under my nose in a tray

the developer smells and fixer smells don't bother me--but this bleach byproduct smell....I dunno....paranoid---any KNOWN products---I've read that the bleach somehow reacts with the geletain to harden it...so there's some products there maybe....it does have a smell like some old agfa paper I have---like the paper has this same smell right out of the box....

any experience or know what this is---if it's non-chromium fumes, then I'm ok with it...kind of....I just dont' like stuff "building up' in the vital organs

[domaz]

What process are you doing exactly? B&W Positives? C-41? They all use a bleach.

[johnielvis]

bleaching black and white film to transparencies

sodium dichromate...appx 8g/litre plus about 60 g/l of sodium bisulfate....this smells much different than the smells from the kodak liquid concentrate bleach (it is no more and you can't get it anymore)....

[Brian C. Miller]

How is your venting set up?

One of the things that I can do in my bathroom is use a clothes dryer flexible duct to route the fan's suction over to where I work. Thus, the fumes get sucked away before they get to my nose.

[Daniel Stone]

to the OP(Elvis),

I know this is slightly off-topic, but could you post a picture of one of your self-reversed b/w transparencies? I've never seen a b/w "chrome" before, much less an 11x14 one

thanks

-Dan

[banjo]

will you should NEVER work with out good ventilation fan

[johnielvis]

that's the problem..downtown hirise has the regular vent stacks in teh building...there's a very slight suction in the bathroom and in the kitchen...but it is not directly over the trays........dryer hose may work--that's an idea with a top hood---what I'm doing in the meantime is finally getting off my butt and coming up with a way to process it all in the tubes (except for the re-exposure part).....that way the huge reaction surface is all sealed and not being constantlly exposed to the recirculating air in the room....ony the little spout...keeps the gas volume more concentrated, but tiny and managable around me...

good idea actually---I can use a cardboard box with a dryer hose on it...that can work.

thanks...but STILL---IS THERE A DANGER OF CHROMIUM LADEN GASES? I think not, but I'd like to know if anybody knows for sure here.... I know sensitizing for carbon is not harmful...same type concentrations I use...but I also use the acid too....

I don't post pics...I have no scanner either or even access to one for 11x14

I can take a photograph of one on a light table--in fact, someone I know just died and I had to do that for the other people that wanted a copy of it---it was an 810 transparency shot with a consumer pocket digital camera---but the digital screen you see it on doesn't do it justice....you have to see these in person....totally different than any screen I think....it looks like any other picture on the computer....if you're real interested anyways, send me your email and I'll send you what I sent the other people--the guy is dead now, so that's ok I think for you to see it---just don't post it.

[Sevo]

thanks...but STILL---IS THERE A DANGER OF CHROMIUM LADEN GASES?

I am not aware of any, nor do any safe handling sheets I've encountered mention them - there are volatile organic chromium compounds, but you won't be able to create these as a by-product of photo lab activities. You should however be concerned about chromate dust from dried up splashes and spills - but techniques working against fumes will do little to nothing against dust. You'll need meticulous workplace cleaning rather than a ventilation system, and have to wear a dust filter whenever handling chromate powder.

[Drew Wiley]

Working without proper ventilation is just plain nuts. You can get portable fume extraction systems ($$$), or you can just purchase a simple squirrel-cage rotary in-line fan from someone like Grainger and hook it up to ducting. It will be noisier but
relatively effective. A few plastic gutter parts from a home center suspended over
your chems and you have a makeshift fume hood.

[johnielvis]

can't hook up a forced air to the high rise vent stack....the actual suction is all I can use, other wise I'll pressurize the stack and it will exhaust into other units instead of the outside, so forced air is not gonna happen.

GOOD that someone verifies what I suspected about chromium being volatile..THANK YOU.....oh, and YES, I know all about dust...I mix the stuff OUT of the apartment building....only diluted liquids in my apt. and afterwards, you can bet it's clean clean clean..I leave NOTHING till the next day---it's all washed .... yes, you DO have to watch the splashing too, Ive noticed.

OH...also I've noticed with this new mixture, probably due to using the bisulfate, is the sludge production is like INSANE..MUCH more than before...the stuff still works good though and can be re-used during the session...just gets real cloudy real fast....