Far away and without incident

[swmcl]

Hello.

OK. So I'm out photographing the landscape. There are many times when I can't get to the location of the subject to take an incident meter reading. Sometimes, the landscape at the location is in the sun when I'm stuck in the shade or the other way round. Sometimes the landscape is just a complex of mid-tones, sometimes the SBR is scary.

Now I know I do not trust me and also I am not that comfortable with obtaining reflected readings with the lightmeter. I would very much prefer to only ever use incident readings - they just feel more reliable and in my past every shot I've taken using an incident reading is close to the mark if not dead right.

Must I use a reflected reading ? I'm using a Sekonic L358 with spot attachment.

Are there any tricks that you guys know of in certain situations ?

I need to get more confident with reflected readings. It feels like I'm being one of those automated guys who just point and shoot when I do the reflected light meter readings !! (Oh ... and I do have many Nikon 35mm lenses with several bodies from a past life - before I became enlightened ... )

Tips and tricks with obtaining readings please !!

Cheers,

Steve

[GPS]

Do search and you'll find all you need.

[Roger Cole]

A reflected light reading of a standard gray card (assuming "nominal" meter calibration) will be the same as an incident reading with the meter placed where the gray card is. The key to reflected readings is reading the right value.

This is a key part of the zone system and those systems derived from it, whether elaborated or simplified from the original of Saint Adams.

So - get comfortable with them. For large format I consider a 1* spot meter essential. Oh, I broke mine once and until I got another I used my Luna Pro (normally used with medium format, mainly) and the 7.5* accessory for it and my negatives were fine, but it felt and was a lot less precise.

[Mark Barendt]

Sure are.

First, understand that light is really fairly predictable.

What I mean is that at a given time of day, in a given situation, in given weather; the brightness is nearly a given. That is the basis for this http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm and the little instruction sheets that used to come in film boxes.

Second, understand that the relationship between bright areas and dark areas is also fairly predictable.

This takes some practice to be practical but it's not too tough. Pick practice scenes where you can get into various light situations, maybe around the house.

Take an incident reading in the normal way then walk under a tree into mixed lighting and take another reading, do the same in the shade behind a building, and various other spots. Take notes each time.

Do the same testing at differing camera angles too, in relation to the sun.

Once you try this a few times you'll start seeing patterns and start being able to guess what the camera setting should be even when you aren't in a perfect spot to meter "normally".

Some of my local buddies, with many years of practice in their pockets, actually shoot their favorite situations using E6 completely by eye, no meter at all and rarely miss.

Third relax, perfect exposure is a great goal and worth aspiring to, but not absolutey required.

Probably the most famous example of guessing at an exposure is for Ansel Adam's Moonrise. Ansel's negative wasn't great but the print was.

[BrianShaw]

Third relax, perfect exposure is a great goal and worth aspiring to, but not absolutey required.

x2

Steve, you need to get over your bias against reflected light readings (and against smaller format cameras). This/these biases appear to be interfering with your ability to practice the arts and crafts of photography.

[Vaughn]

First, understand that light is really fairly predictable.

Not under the redwoods! And probably not under the deep rainforests of Queensland. My shadow readings (darkest areas I wish to maintain detail) can vary by 3 or so stops under the same lighting conditions. And when photographing in there under an overcast sky, the thickness of the overcast varies throughout the day, yielding very different readings. But out in the open, you are correct, Mark.

[Mark Barendt]

Vaughn, were not necessarily disagreeing.

Meter readings and placement choices are two different things.

I take an incident reading, ask myself where I got that and where I want that?

Spot metering is no different.

What varies is our refernce points and our style. Personally the absolute shadow point isn't important to me, the mid-tone placement is much more important to me. I have already chosen my relative shadow point when I chose my EI.

This is not to say that I don't play with a given shot's shadow point, but it still falls back to an placement choice.

This is style choice, not a mistake, and experience let's me make my placement choices without reflected readings and often even without a meter.

[Vaughn]

I don't quite follow you, Mark, but that is my fault. Like you said, different style, and different needs probably as well.

I did go photographing with someone last week in the redwoods (rare for me as I usually am solo). At one place, his incident readings/placement were three stops different than my spotmeter readings/placement. At the same f/stop, he recommended around 10 seconds, mine was 60 seconds (w/o reciprocity failure adjustment). So I just used 60 seconds with no adjustment. I lost my detail in the darkest areas I wanted detail -- should have corrected for the rec. failure. Still will make a decent print as those shadow areas are relatively small and unimportant to the image (a self-portrait).

[swmcl]

Brian ... you are correct. I am not much of an artist and lots of an engineer. Artsy fartsy is a challenge for me.

Mark ... thank you for your response. I shall potter around the house on the weekend. I do know what you mean by predictable and practice with measurements trains me I'm sure. The importance of the 'exactness' of exposure has a direct correlation to how much the photo costs to produce. If its E6 4x5 I take lots of care.

Roger ... I have misplaced my collection of Kodak grey cards and in my recent relocation across Australia I am certain they didn't come for the journey. I shall buy some more.

Thanks for your replies. I should add that Australian light is very bright and the landscape can be very contrasty because the leaves on the trees are usually very dark in colour. So a Queensland beach and forest scene for example will be an enormous SBR - perhaps 10 or 13 stops. Oh for a little smog and distance from the equator !

[Roger Cole]

I didn't really mean to suggest that you necessarily need a gray card. I just wanted to point out that if you read an appropriate middle gray, the reflected and incident meters will agree. The trick to reflected light readings is learning to read the right areas for your film type and the way you want to render the scene.