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Thread: Jobo 4x5 development

  1. #11
    Forever Beardless Ari's Avatar
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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    Avi,
    There is a 2551 drum for a single 6-sheet reel.
    This is more practical and economical, but I found it too small to fit on my motorized base, so I sold it.

  2. #12

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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    Ari,

    So what is the difference between the 2551 drum and the 2509N drum? Looks like the 2551 is no longer sold.....a kind member of the LF forum offered me the Uniroller, so I am thinking that+2551 (if I can find one) would be a great combo to start with.

    Avi

  3. #13
    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    The 2509N is a reel for holding the film. It fits inside the drum.

    The last time I saw 2509N and drums was at Glazer's Camera film store. Send them an email and see if they still have them in stock. The guys there are really helpful.

  4. #14
    Forever Beardless Ari's Avatar
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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    Avi,
    Brian is correct.
    The 2551 is a 1-reel tank, the 2553 is a 2-reel tank.
    Both use the 2509 reels.

    The hard part is finding them since they are out of production.
    Post a WTB here and shop, shop, shop!
    Good luck.

  5. #15

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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    I use Jobo tanks on a Beseler motorized base. I sold my CPP hoping to simplify my setup since I am not doing color. So far, no regrets.

    There is an excellent video showing you how it is done here:

    http://michaelegordon.wordpress.com/...development-2/

  6. #16

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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    I meant to add:

    The 2500 tanks with 2509(N) reels are nice for doing lots of sheets at once if you have enough reels and tanks. But they are not so good for doing multiple batches of film because you must thoroughly dry all of the reels.

    The expert drums are simpler to use, cost more, are easier to load, and can be dried more easily before processing the next batch.

    Either series can be used on the motor base. The Beseler motor base is what I prefer because it has a switch on the front to change the direction of rotation. The Unicolor motor base has an internal switch that automatically reverses the rotation, but it reverses to soon given the long circumference of the Jobo drums. The trick is to open up the unit, unscrew the switch button, cut a window in the plastic housing to accommodate the switch button, and then screw the housing back on. The switch fits on the side by friction and then you manually reverse rotation with the button. You can search for more details. I did it without much cursing and it works fine. I bought a few motor bases figuring that they won't last forever.

  7. #17
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    Quote Originally Posted by atlcruiser View Post
    I use the 2509n reels and tanks. I have no issue loading them without the guide. I honestly think the guide would piss me off!

    Greg Blank on here can get them new or e bay has them all over. I have a CPE2+ so I use both the short and long tanks. If you plan to use a roller base i think you would wnat the longer tank so that it fits easier.

    With 2, 2509n reels in a large tank you get 12 exposures at once; one reel 6 exposures. I paid about $250 for my reel set up of 2 reels, short tank, long tank. I think now I would have been netter off to spend $500ish and get the expert drum to hold 10. I use the expert drum for 810 and love it.

    For 810 the expert drums are much better than any other option. For 45 the expert drums really shine in that they are so much faster to load and there are less parts to keep up with. My darkroom time is very limited so if I can save 10 min loading reels that is a good thing.


    The atlanta folks should meet up one Sat afternoon....
    I started out with the loader base and found it easy. I tried loading without it and couldn't really get the hang of it. I can do it with practice sheets with the lights on but that's about it. Turn the lights off and it frustrates me. But I seem to be the exception to most rules about what's easy to load. I find the Jobo plastic roll film reels the easiest reels to load that I've ever used, and never could really reliably get the hang of stainless for 35mm (sometimes I could load it, more often I couldn't get all of a 36 exposure roll on the reel.) I never even tried 120 on stainless.

    So...it's certainly possible. Some people prefer not using the loader base. Me, I like it, makes loading easy for me.

    You use an expert drum on a CPE2+? I've heard it's possible with some of the drums, just not good for the motor. I have a CPE2 non-plus. I'm very fond of the Jobo. If it broke I'd be looking for another and since they aren't made any more I tend to treat it as delicately as possible.

    We had some Atlanta folks talking via email about a meet up once before, but scheduling never worked out. Often enough my schedule was the problem since I work weird hours (lots of nights, plus some days) and off and on travel on weekends. But I'm game for trying again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Graves View Post
    I used the 2509 reels for quite a while before I lucked into a 3010. I found that the best way to get optimum results was to only load five sheets. I don't know if it was just me (very likely) or a flaw in the design, but I got inconsistent development if all six films were loaded. And I agree with David. The guides just pissed me off.
    There are actually two generations of the reels. The original was the 2509. Some people had problems with uneven development or the sheets touching and Jobo later recommended loading only four sheets, the inside and outside slots, leaving the middle slots unloaded to put more space between the sheets. They then released the modified second generation 2509n. The n has plastic "paddles" that snap in place on each side after you've loaded the film. Opinions differ on whether the paddles are necessary or even help. I have them so I use them. I'm not sure of the other design differences between the 2509 and 2509n since I only have the n. As far as sheets touching, it's easy to feel with your fingers that they are loaded properly. On the n they sort of snap into place when fully inserted and can't be pulled directly back out (you'll notice this when you remove the finished negatives too - you have to sort of peel them out, which is easy and does no harm.) I've always just used the plastic paddles as designed after carefully feeling that the sheets are loaded properly and never had a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    A 2553 tank takes two reels, and lets you process 12 sheets at a time.
    I've used that for the last three years and would not want anything else.
    Jobo's numbers mean more than they seem so let me break that down a little:

    1. There's a 1500 series of film tanks, a 2500 series of film tanks, and a 2800 series of paper drums. The 1500 series cannot be used for 4x5, at least not directly that I'm aware of. They are smaller diameter so use less solution. I have some for 35mm where the solution savings can be significant, and they can also be used for inversion as normal tanks with the proper lid (I'll get to that.) I use mine for 35mm and 120 inversion processing for developers I don't want to use with rotary processing.

    2. The 2500 film tanks use larger diameter reels (2502) for roll film, and can take the 2509(n) sheet film reels. You wouldn't likely want to use them for inversion because of the required solution volume though it would be possible.

    3. The 2800 series for paper have the same bodies as the 2500 series. The difference is in the funnel inside the lid. Those can be changed back and forth easily essentially converting a 2500 to a 2800 or vice versa.

    4. The third digit for film tanks tells you the capacity of the tank in 35mm reels. So a 2521 or 2523 tank can hold two reels set for 35mm, or one set for 120/220 or one 2509(n) sheet film reel. The 2551 and 2553 can hold five 35mm or two sheet film reels.

    5. The last digit refers to the lid. A "3" means a cog lid for use with a processor that has the lift accessory. I have the lift, which is nice though not essential on a processor, so all mine are 3s. (Well actually I have a regular lid I got with the 2820 I discuss below, so I could use that lid and make them 1s.) For use with a roller base or inversion the cog lid will not work. The solution would run out. A final "1" means it has a lid with a rubber (more like flexible plastic I think) cap for use with a processor without a lift (in which case it needs a magnet on the other end of the tank) or for inversion or a roller base. This is the one you need to use it without a lift.

    You can swap the lids easily so one tank can be used, with the right funnel, for paper or film, and with either a cog or rubber lid with the lift or without the lift.

    Quote Originally Posted by psychoanalyst View Post
    Thanks folks.....I read about the issues with films overlapping in Unidrums.....so the best solution might be to get a Uniroller/Beseler base and use maybe a Jobo 2509N drum?

    What is a good price for the unidrum alone you think?

    Ari..thanks for the suggestion, but anything that can process more than 5-6 sheets at once is way overkill for me....I am looking for the smallest system (minimizing chemistry usage I guess) that can process 4x5.

    Thanks a ton folks.

    Avi
    In the Jobo line there is also the 2820 test drum. The 8 means it was designed for paper. It's really meant to be used for making two 4x5 test prints on paper, but can be used for processing two 4x5 sheets of film, in 40ml of chemistry. I bought one before I realized it had exactly the same body as my 2523 tanks and I didn't need to buy another. Harrumph. Anyway, I haven't tried this yet. There are threads on here about it. I'll get around to trying it.

    There's a guy on eBay now who has been selling very good condition Jobo stuff lately and gets more regularly. It isn't cheap but is priced about what the market seems to be for its condition and I've had no issues with him. Sometimes you can find bargains. I got the 2820 and an extension module I didn't want and can't use for a lot less money. It needs cleaning but seems to be quite workable.

  8. #18

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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    Avi,
    There is a 2551 drum for a single 6-sheet reel.
    This is more practical and economical, but I found it too small to fit on my motorized base, so I sold it.
    So, the smallest drum I would need to run it on a Unicolor/Besler base would be the 2553?

    Is it ok to run it with just 1 2509 reel? And how much chemistry would I need?

    Avi

  9. #19

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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    Quote Originally Posted by psychoanalyst View Post
    So, the smallest drum I would need to run it on a Unicolor/Besler base would be the 2553?

    Is it ok to run it with just 1 2509 reel? And how much chemistry would I need?

    Avi
    That drum is pretty short. I would check to make sure it is long enough. I would get the two reel drum. You can use just one reel if you like but the longer length of the tube is easy to work with on the motor base.

  10. #20
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Re: Jobo 4x5 development

    Quote Originally Posted by jeroldharter View Post
    That drum is pretty short. I would check to make sure it is long enough. I would get the two reel drum. You can use just one reel if you like but the longer length of the tube is easy to work with on the motor base.
    The 2553 (you actually need a 2551 for use on a roller base, not a 3) IS a two reel drum.

    The "pretty short" one is the 2523/2521, which holds two 35mm or one sheet film reel.

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