Washing Film and Water Consumption - A Survey

[Leigh]

I checked the Permawash results a few times, and always found it completely reliable.

Haven't done so in many years, because I don't think it's necessary.

And a point, if I may...
'Soaking' is not the same as 'washing'. The latter carries away residual hypo; the former does not.

- Leigh

[Jay DeFehr]

Leigh,

The washing process is mostly one of diffusion, so soaking is washing, but there comes a point when the soak water is in equilibrium with the emulsion, and no further diffusion takes place, which is why consecutive soaks in fresh water are required.

[Bill McMannis]

And a point, if I may...
'Soaking' is not the same as 'washing'. The latter carries away residual hypo; the former does not.

- Leigh

Hi Leigh,

I cannot put my hands on the instructions that came with my washer (I bought it about nine years ago), but the original owner of Fine Art Photo Supply contended that rinsing in water was far less effective than a couple of soaks. While I never did any scientific testing, the washer was marketed as being an archival washer. I had used washers that consumed quite a bit fo water rinsing prints, but got better results (uniformly dried prints without stains or residue that drymount nicely)with soaking. In my case, I am sticking with soaking.

[Doremus Scudder]

First, as Michael pointed out, unless you are rigorously testing for residual hypo, you don't know if your washing regime is working or not.

Second, if you are interested in processing for optimum permanence, it is better to err on the side of too much washing than not enough.

There is a sticky thread on film washing along with lots of test results on APUG here:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/5...ly-way-do.html
There are already 22 pages on the thread and lots of expertise shared. I recommend it for those who haven't already read it.

I use a Gravity Works sheet film washer for film. It is a water waster if left running continuously, so I stop the flow after every emptying and refilling of the tank and let it sit for 5 minutes. Normally I wash film for a minimum of 30 minutes (after a 2-bath fix, rinse, but no HCA, since it removes pyro stain). That translates to 6 changes of water in 30 minutes. The tank capacity is approx 2 liters, sot that means 12 liters of water for a load of 12 4x5 sheets. My residual hypo tests for film come out with no stain at all.

For prints, I use either my 16x20 Versalab or 11x14 Paterson washers. The Paterson washers have a self-agitating feature, but rather bad flow patterns, so I have added a piece of tubing with holes every 1/4 inch which sprays water in at the top of the washer. I have no accurate way of measuring the flow rate without in-line flow meters, but I would estimate it significantly higher than 15 gallons/hr. Fortunately, I work in a water-rich area and do not have to pay that much for it. The up side: After one hour of washing, the prints show now stain at all in the residual hypo test (no stain for residual silver either, but that is a fixing issue, not washing).

Best,

Doremus Scudder

[Bruce Watson]

OK. Let me play Devils advocate. Have any of you tested your wash times for residual fixer on your film or prints or have you just called it good because no problems have been encountered?

I have actually run both residual silver (tests fixing time) and residual hypo tests on my process.

I'm using a Jobo CPP-2 with a 3010 tank processing 10 sheets of 5x4 at a time. I use distilled water for the entire process, including all the film washing. Because I'm using distilled water, it's easy to measure -- I have to pour it into the Jobo bottles used in the CPP-2.

Turns out I use almost exactly 6 liters of distilled water per 10 sheets of 5x4 film. This includes all water use, from developer dilution to hanging the film to dry to final rinse of the 3010 drum itself.

I wash the film in the 3010 on the Jobo. It turns out that four wash "cycles" tests out to no residual hypo using a Photographers' Forumlary residual hypo test kit (that is, I can't detect any stain at all). These cycles are fairly quick too -- 1, 1, 2, and 4 minutes, half a liter each.

I've since added an optional fifth wash cycle. Not because of residual hypo, but because of the persistence of the sensitization dyes used in TMY-2. I make the last wash 8 minutes, and the resulting film is much less purple (than it was at the start of the fifth wash cycle) when done.

I could cut my water usage even more -- I could go from XTOL 1:3 to 1:1 (save half a liter), and probably use just a quarter liter on my first couple of washes (save another half liter). But I'm already pretty darn thrifty as it is. I don't feel too badly about my water usage.

[John Kasaian]

My Versalab works at a 1/2 gal/minute flow for 20 minutes. Not bad. Of course you've got to use a wash aid and also fill it up. I know it has over ten 11x14 slots. I also wash outdoors and use the run-off to water my lawn and shubbery. Details on the VersaLab http://www.versalab.com/server/photo...ts/washer1.htm

[jp]

For 4x5 film, I use the combiplan with the top off for washing, using about 1.5L for 7 washes over 30 minutes, which is quite efficient. So that's a few gallons of water for 6 4x5's.

8x10 is in tray and I just leave water going and don't measure it. Of course I use a few more gallons rinsing and cleaning things too.

I would be more careful if I was paying for water use. I'm on a well and only pay to pump it up out of the ground. I've never run out of water, and have some natural springs around the house as well, so I don't think water quantity will be a problem.

[Cor]

I have actually run both residual silver (tests fixing time) and residual hypo tests on my process.

I'm using a Jobo CPP-2 with a 3010 tank processing 10 sheets of 5x4 at a time. I use distilled water for the entire process, including all the film washing.

Bruce,

I was using distilled water for washing as well, but I was warned against it, since it is supposed to wash hypo out slower. It had something to do with the osmotic value, in the sense that mineral rich water (as I have over here) is more efficient in removing the hypo salts out. Have to dig up that Email, I am sure I am phrasing this in-correct..

Best,

Cor

[SamReeves]

I usually wash while it's on my Jobo. This does two things. Washes the film, and also cleans out the drum. This does use a lot less water than a off base unit. Then all I have to do is mop it up, and let it dry.

[Ken Lee]

I use the Diskrack Film Washer. Very affordable, no moving parts. Available almost everywhere.

According to Anchell and Troop, in The Film Developing Cookbook, Alkaline Fixers have the following advantages over more traditional Acidic formulas:

Less danger of over-fixing
Shorter washing times
More archival
Greater capacity
More stable
Can be formulated to have low odor.

If you use alkaline fixer, there is no need for hypo clear, and film takes less time to wash. I like the classic TF-3 Alkaline Formula. Because it contains no Hypo, there's no Hypo to clear. It's easy and quick to mix fresh every time.