Big 4 lens makers - no difference - right?

[Gary Helfrich]

I think that Erics suggestions are a great improvement for my test.

I have borrowed Rodenstock lenses from time to time. They were great. So are the Fuji and Schneider lenses that I currently own. The fact that the lens is being reviewed by a magazine is not of any particular value unless they are conducting some sort of scientific blind test like Eric suggested.

I don't believe that ANYONE could tell a Rodenstock from a Schneider (or Nikon or Fuji) in a controlled blind test. Not myself, not Bob, or any of the "well known photographers" that write these lens reviews. I have a feeling that the real reason that blind testing is never done is that it will show that the emperor is running around naked.

[Bob Salomon]

But Gary,

It isn't what you think. That is only supposition.

What counts is what you know. And you can only know by doing it yourself.

You don't even know if the testers and potential testers on the web are even as qualified as you to do a test to your satisfaction. Or if they shoot like you do. Or the condition of their equipment used to make the test. or their ability in the darkroom or the quality of their enlarging lens, or their loupe, or their eyesight, or simply what they accept as good or bad.

Yes you will be able to see the difference. There are even posts from 3rd parties who have seen the differences.

But then you shouldn't even accept their word, or major well published authors word, or major magazine editors word - even when the pictures are published.

Trust your own eyes and learn for your self and not rely on someone elses ability or lack o

[Gary Helfrich]

Perhaps I need to make myself a bit more clear. I have shot current Rodenstock lenses (Grandagon and Sironar -S) and I cannot see the difference looking at the film on a light table. At one point I examined the film with my toolmakers microscope, (I'm a machinist by trade, a photographer as a hobby) and could not see any difference all the way down to the grain of the film (Velvia in this case).

From my observations, modern large format glass is so good that the differences are lost in the "noise floor". Camera vibration, film structure and flatness, film holder registration, etc. are all bigger contributors to shortcomings in image quality than the lens is.

Bob seems to harp on shooting rather than making judgements based on others' observations and opinions. Sound advice. I don't see any difference between modern large format lenses other than coverage and focal length. So in my case, I just shop for the best bargain between the big four. I also think that anyone who feels that they can tell the difference is blowing smoke and could not seperate out images in a blind test. This is also something I have done for fun with one of my friends who bought a new Zeiss 135mm lens for an absurd amount of money. I shot a ten images first with the Zeiss and then with my $600. Fuji 135mm CM-W. We put all twenty images on a light table and he tried to sort them, and failed. So once again, based on my experience, I don't think that a person can tell one transparancy from another based on which lens was used to shoot it.

[Carlos Co]

I think enough has been said on this. After looking at the USENET archives, I really really wish now that people can delete their own questions before they get out of hand. Thanks for confirming my thoughts on this topic, Gary. Bob, eventually when I become more experienced, I will do what you say and try out various lenses for myself and try to see the differences, but for now, I'm going for Nikon all the way because they are the cheapest at B&H. Since I asked the question, and started this, do I have the right to stop it too, so I don't get more than what I bargained for?