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Thread: Jersey City, NJ

  1. #11

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    Mar 2010
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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    I was thinking about Sandy Hook as a possible destination. The Falls are good too - I've wanted to do some architectural shooting of the buildings in the historic district.

    Princeton, Lambertville, Hiking at the Gap, VanSlyke Castle in Ramapo to name a few more

    Dan

  2. #12

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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    You can't take photos at the PATH station in Hoboken - PATH requires licenses for photography which is why I am in the process of filing a law suit against them.

  3. #13

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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    Anything going on with our meetup?

    Dan

  4. #14

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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    i have to ask... why the law suit?

  5. #15

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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    Because the PATH rules about licensing photography are RIDICULOUSLY unconstitutional (aside from the fact that they don't actually issue any licenses and deliberately make it practically impossible to apply for or obtain one)

  6. #16

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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
    Because the PATH rules about licensing photography are RIDICULOUSLY unconstitutional (aside from the fact that they don't actually issue any licenses and deliberately make it practically impossible to apply for or obtain one)
    You would not think this is because of the Events of Sept 11th and the now in place controls over travel infrastructures. There is a clear and present reason why they do not allow photography on and around path stations. These are in place to control the possible planning of terrorist attacks.

    Yes I am aware that you are going to state that you think this is absurd, and that it is taking away your creative rights. Yet tell me what it is that you wish to photograph that can not be created somewhere else? The safety and securities acts that are currently in place apply to all bridges, tunnels, and public travel hubs.

    You are aware that the path system is not officially a public property? That it is indeed a private property that you are permitted to use under very strict and direct laws in exchange for your fare? You are aware of this, correct? Therefore they do not have to permit you to be able to shoot there at all. A lawsuit is just a waste of time and energy. It is not like you are fighting for the right to shoot in a park or another public common use area. If they said you could not photograph the statue of liberty or something of the sort, then yes you are being impinged upon and I would say fight the good fight.

    I am curious to see where your lawsuit goes and how quick the judge tosses it out. You are simply going to waste time and money trying to fight against the patriot act bs that we are all living with now.

    Also that thread you linked is simply the same five people replying and ranting to each other about how its so wrong to take away their freedoms. If it is so wrong then simply do it and stand up for what you feel is your legal right. If you are correct then your arrest will be justified and you will set precedence in the courts and then no one would ever have to get a permit again. You would be the person to set the wheels in motion. So instead of being a name on a list in a thread of people bitching about something and doing nothing, you would be the stone rolling down the hill building the momentum!

  7. #17

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    Nov 2006
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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    Rather than discuss pros and cons of the Patriot Act, I think the point of this thread was to plan a LF shoot in NJ. Toward that end, can we set a time/date? I previously suggested Sat. Oct 22nd or 29th. Does anyone have a preferred destination?

    Don

  8. #18

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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by OldCrow View Post
    You would not think this is because of the Events of Sept 11th and the now in place controls over travel infrastructures. There is a clear and present reason why they do not allow photography on and around path stations. These are in place to control the possible planning of terrorist attacks.

    Yes I am aware that you are going to state that you think this is absurd, and that it is taking away your creative rights. Yet tell me what it is that you wish to photograph that can not be created somewhere else? The safety and securities acts that are currently in place apply to all bridges, tunnels, and public travel hubs.

    You are aware that the path system is not officially a public property?
    I appreciated you sharing your rather uninformed opinion with me but if you don't mind, I will let the courts decide. BUT fyi the Port Authority is indeed public property


    "The PATH is a subdivision of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Whatever restrictions may flow from the status of property denoted as "private," are here wholly irrelevant. The terminal is a building, constructed, owned, operated and maintained by a public authority. It is open to the public, and it is in fact used by thousands of citizens each day as they travel to and from work. THe Court of Appeals of the Second Circuit has held under identical circumstances , that a New York bus terminus of the same Port Authority is a public forum..."
    (etc etc mentionin public forum status of Journal Square and Jersey City)
    - Moskowitz v Cullman, 432 FSupp 1263 (1977)


    Furthermore, the rules in question predate 9/11. In fact the PATH is the only mass public transportation system in the US that prohibits casual public photography - not the MTA subways, not NJT, etc. Incidentally, the only time "terrorists" photographed their target was the Liberty City 7 case, that was basically laughed out of court (a government informant instigated the hapless "terrorists," including by buying them the camera they couldn't otherwise afford.) Incidentally, there has been a net decrease in instances of terrorism on US soil compared to the 1970s. It isn't my creative rights being taken away - it is all our Constitutional rights. And this is hardly the first time that we're told that various "threats" require us to give up rights - 200 years ago, Benjamin Franklin said that people who give up a little bit of rights for a little bit of security will have neither. And 2000 years ago, Plato said beware of the tyrant for when he first appears, he comes as a protector.

    As for when we'll meet - I'm open!

  9. #19

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    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
    I appreciated you sharing your rather uninformed opinion with me but if you don't mind, I will let the courts decide. BUT fyi the Port Authority is indeed public property


    "The PATH is a subdivision of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Whatever restrictions may flow from the status of property denoted as "private," are here wholly irrelevant. The terminal is a building, constructed, owned, operated and maintained by a public authority. It is open to the public, and it is in fact used by thousands of citizens each day as they travel to and from work. THe Court of Appeals of the Second Circuit has held under identical circumstances , that a New York bus terminus of the same Port Authority is a public forum..."
    (etc etc mentionin public forum status of Journal Square and Jersey City)
    - Moskowitz v Cullman, 432 FSupp 1263 (1977)


    Furthermore, the rules in question predate 9/11. In fact the PATH is the only mass public transportation system in the US that prohibits casual public photography - not the MTA subways, not NJT, etc. Incidentally, the only time "terrorists" photographed their target was the Liberty City 7 case, that was basically laughed out of court (a government informant instigated the hapless "terrorists," including by buying them the camera they couldn't otherwise afford.) Incidentally, there has been a net decrease in instances of terrorism on US soil compared to the 1970s. It isn't my creative rights being taken away - it is all our Constitutional rights. And this is hardly the first time that we're told that various "threats" require us to give up rights - 200 years ago, Benjamin Franklin said that people who give up a little bit of rights for a little bit of security will have neither. And 2000 years ago, Plato said beware of the tyrant for when he first appears, he comes as a protector.

    As for when we'll meet - I'm open!
    Really, so you think quoting some outdated left wing bs is going to back your bullshit claims? You can convince yourself all you want that it is public property, but the PATH is not public. You pay a fare to ride it and that fare gives you the ability to gain access to the area that they own. If you do not pay the fare you can not be there.

    Also your quoting the forefathers is far off the mark, if you are going quote their words use them in the correct context. I am well aware that you have not had to deal with any real "threats" and that you are griping over a imagined idea of freedom that you feel is being stepped on. You never answered the question of what is it that you are looking to shoot there that is exact to that area.

    I love how you add these links to other websites that hold no ground to the claims you make. You live in jersey city in a loft and have no clue what it is like in the middle east and yet you want to spout about the terror that does not exist. Yet you want to file a bs lawsuit stating that you are being wronged by not being allowed to shoot some pictures in a private domain. Also the Marta and the Bart does not allow casual photography, so check your facts. You really are clueless when it comes to your fact checking on this.

    The port authority is not a public domain, they have their own governing system and police force, which makes it a private entity. I think you need to do a bit more fact checking and not rely on wiki for your facts. You are barking up the wrong tree and you are going to be another one of those laughed out of courts cases. So go on with your flag waving and help raise the price of fares. You wont get anywhere and you wont change anything.

    So show me where this was enacted prior to 9/11 and I will pay your court costs. Since all the ranting and raving you referenced was to some clown that had no information on his request for a permit that was well after 9/11.

    I know this may hard for you to believe, but no public transit system is public. If you look up the meaning of public domain it clearly states. "Free to the public for entry." Now where on the path is it free? Just because it is called public transit, does not mean it is free. I am going to guess on this, but you are some 20 something year old "photographer" that has it out against the Path for stunting your creative side.

    Oh and if you also learn how to speak latin you would know what Plato actually said.

    So what do you need to shoot there that you can not shoot somewhere else? If you feel so right about your choice and view, then why not do it and see what happens? If you get arrested and go to court, then if you are right the judge will see that you are and you will change the tide of time for everyone else. But then again you can be a voiceless rant on the internet and file a lame lawsuit against them and not try to change anything. So how much are you trying to get out of them anyway? You are the problem with this country... "I dont like it so I am going to file a lawsuit".

    Make a movement, make a change. Grow some balls and gain a voice. Stand up for what you think is right. Put it into practice, and do something. Letter writing and internet bitching is a waste of time. You wont win in court. Win on the streets and the stations of the Path. Get people behind you, fight it the way it needs to be fought. Take it to the concrete. Photographers swarm the trains and shoot...

    think about it. build the wave.

  10. #20

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    Sep 2011
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    106

    Re: Jersey City, NJ

    I personally get a laugh out of you using a case from 1977 as your big letter of commitment. Thats 34 years ago.

    Come on, we are aware you are good at google search for your weak information, but please can it be from at least the lat 3 years. Nothing from over three decades ago would hold ground in court. What are you going to cite next, Rowe vrs Wade?

    You are on every board about photography and on all of them you have something to say about anything and everything and you say nothing at all in everything you say. I do not have personal grudge against you in anyway, but honestly you are just talking out your ass most of the time.

    I hope you are aware that there are people that are far more informed on the inner workings of governmental dealings then you are. Why file a lawsuit when you are well aware you are going to lose? Its like fighting an uphill battle in the snow against a grizzly bear.

    Like I said before, do something! Stop talking and bitching and do something. Fight the good fight. Shoot the photos, make them stop you.

    When you do I will raise my hand and support you, until then you are just another voiceless imp crying and complaining into a paper sack. Lawsuits and letter writing will get you no where. Its time to make a difference is it matters. Start a post and make it happen. Get the other shutter monkeys in on it and start something.

    Ps Plato was dead long before 2000 years ago... He died in 347 bc... do your research better!
    Last edited by OldCrow; 15-Oct-2011 at 20:04.

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