That may be true when printing with only grays and blacks. However, it's simply not an issue here. RIPs don't use only the gray inks, but have use of the other colors (aside from yellow, which quickly fades) to ensure neutral tones, or even provide smoothly toned cold or warm tints.Originally Posted by Peter J. De Smidt
Chuck Kimmerle
www.chuckkimmerle.com
We have a few advanced users (Tyler Boley, John Dean, and Walker Blackwell) who have been using Piezography Gloss Overprint to overcoat their HP and Epson color prints. The results which they shared with me at the Society for Photographic Education conference bridged the gap between inkjet and photography (finally) when viewing color inkjet prints. I believe it was Tyler Boley who first began experimenting with my Gloss Overprint on color inkjet. That was several years ago. He began sharing his efforts with others. These guys are like the Navy Seals of inkjet printing - exceptional experimentation without regards to choosing 3rd party over OEM. They do it all and combine these effortlessly. They all use Piezography but are not married to it like I am, and they use HP and Epson OEM solutions as they require. Lots of printers as you can well imagine.
A number of customers of my customers are applying Gloss Overprint using semi-working or older Epson LF printers. I create a QTR curve for them, according to how many print heads they have still functioning - as it can be applied by one print head or a combination of print heads depending upon speed desired. It remains an option for a less than fully functional older Epson LF printer (to serve as the Gloss Overprinter.) At Cone Editions, we use a 7600 with only 5 working heads to speed up the overprinting on glossy Piezography prints. We have an old 9000 with only 3 functional heads.
What Gloss Overprint does for Epson ABW prints, and how it functions in Piezography Glossy, is to completely eliminate any gloss differential between highlights (or paper white) and ink tones. It produces a uniform gloss over the entire print regardless to the amount of ink that has been printed in making the photograph.
ABW when catching any light reflection shows differing levels of gloss between unprinted paper and ink and therefore shows up within the images as well. For some this is so minor as to not be worth mentioning and for others it is totally objectionable. The use of the overprint completely eliminates this phenomena and makes the inkjet prints look like conventional photographic surfaces. Conventional Fiber and RC papers do not modulate gloss according to the amount of density that is developed. That's what we are trying to achieve with Piezography Glossy. So, we see this as an optional gap-bridger for conventional inkjet printmakers, and it is a mandatory and integral part of the Piezography Glossy system. The curves I build for Piezography Glossy form a linearization only after the Overprint is applied.
Finally, we provide replacements for the Epson LK and LLK for a number of customers who use my inks as part of their Epson ABW process. Shade 4 Piezography ink is equivalent to Epson LK. Shade 5 Piezography ink is equivalent to Epson LLK. Most of these customers continue to use EPSON PK but switch out their Epson MK to Piezography shade 1. The Epson PK uses some dye still and is darker than Piezography MPS shade 1 (my photo black) which is 100% pigment. But, because Piezography is encapsulated pigment, it is compatible when used with Epson Ultrachrome inks. So it gives another dimension to printmaking with combined Ultrachrome and Piezography ink sets. The Piezography Selenium or Neutral shades 4&5 are most widely used in this solution. However, a few are now using Piezography Carbon 4&5 and creating their own ICC profiles to compensate for the lack of green expected in the Epson LK and LLK which the Carbon shades 4 & 5 replace.
Hope this makes sense and is also somewhat interesting as an option to better printmaking.
Jon Cone
Piezography
available at: InkjetMall.com
Mike,
I have been using Jon's K7/MPS inkset in my Epson 4880 for 18 months. I primarily print with the Glossy inkset and use the same printer to perform a second pass of the gloss optimizer on a print. It is a very easy process and leads to terrific results. I find the results to be better (more subtle tonality) than the B&W OEM inkset I used in the past.
The difference in quality is not created by the QTR software, though it is needed. The difference in quality comes of the fact that you are using 6-7 shades of grey/black ink to print a B&W image instead of 3 with an OEM inkset. As a result, the printer has a much richer palette of ink to render each part of the image's tonal range.
Another poster mentioned image color - I use Jon's Type5 for warmer toned prints, Canson Infinity Baryta for neutral, and Epson Exhibition Fiber for cooler toned prints. I really enjoy the image quality and tone that these choices give me.
If I were in your shoes, I would take several images that you have printed before and have Piezo prints made by Jon's studio on a few papers. This should tell you what you need to know.
Best Regards,
George
Often people don't want to hear from Jon about these issues as they assume they will be getting a sales pitch since he sells some of the options available. Unfortunately, by dismissing his input as merely sales, one also dismisses one of the few people on the planet who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to advanced fine art ink systems.
While it is true this forum has a high degree of advanced photographic knowledge available, there is still very little knowledge here or in any of the forums when it comes to truly advanced and masterful inkjet fine art printing. In fact most of the people I consider worth listening to are not here. Being an evangelist for his own products is of course a given, but all the other "gurus" on line considered expert also have vested interests, yet they all have vast amounts of knowledge to impart.
Specialized advanced B&W printing with ink, in my opinion, continues to evolve far more rapidly than the community keeps pace with, it has become very niche. So addressing these issues with some general one sentence replies to questions that are not quite the real issues... very difficult. It takes time, learning, and sample prints from anyone having them on offer. One thing a lot of us do when we get together is look at a LOT of prints.
So Jon, when are you putting that QT movie about your history up? People need to know who they are hearing from...
Tyler
A lot of information.... thanks Tyler, George, and Jon...
I am leaning against the glossy option, Because i like the fiber based papers like Moab.
The Epson K3 inks are good at B&W printing glossy...
Jon do you have an example of the difference between K3 and K7 inks on fiber paper?
I think i know the answer but, the K7 inks require the use of a RIP driver/program?... (PPC MAC)
When i flush the K3 ink out, can i use the same carts for the new ink? or do i need a new set of carts?
The pet peeve about My Epson printers (4800 4880) is head clogging. Are the K7 inks better or worse? or maybe the same....?
I sell my pictures at art shows, displays... ect... I do not want good pictures, i really want great photographs, the best i can produce. I would really want to know there is a difference in the output for 800 dollars and change....
What about an r2880 printer? Jon you offer a CIS system.... can i use refillable carts instead?
Thanks ... it is really nice to be able to hear from others about K7 inks for Epson
Yikes, did you really say this? I am sure some would be horrified. ;-)
The answer, to this question about paper follows. However, first let me explain my personal bias. Back in the old days when I used to be a vegetarian, I didn't eat the fake meat they were making from soybeans. I figured if I wanted meat I would just eat meat. By the same token, if I want a print to look like a darkroom print I would just print in a darkroom, I'm plenty capable.
When I made the move to platinum back in the late '70's I was so excited I never looked back. I found an effect that happens, only on prints where there is no gloss to interrupt the illusion, where some viewers "fell into" the print. It's called breaking the ground. When I discovered this, and the sense of richness the alternative processes gave me, I never looked back. For this reason, I am not interested in heavy blacks, or gloss of any kind. For others that love dark blacks and gloss - its a personal thing, I wish them well, etc. Just not my interest.
That said (perhaps not quite concisely as I'd like, sorry) I use primarily two papers these days. I have done years of work tuning Hahnemuhle's PhotoRag in both color and b&w. It's a fine paper. There are others like it, such as the Crane and a Canson. With a little work, beautiful smooth gradations should be possible from all three of these.
Lately, I have discovered Kozo. When I printed in platinum, I used a paper from James River that was translucent. The light was going thru the prints and bouncing back off the mat. The prints were luminescent as a result. I have found a Kozo paper that does this same thing, at about 70lb, and am having a blast with it. Kozo is handmade Japanese paper, made from a bush rather than a tree. It's exquisite.
Both the Hahnemuhle and the Kozo are expensive (roughly the same) but the years of testing means I know exactly how they will behave so I keep going. If I get to the result I want quicker I figure there's a benefit in there somewhere...
Hope this helps,
Lenny
EigerStudios
Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing
Mike, quick reply to one of your follow up questions. I have had the Cone Inkset in my 4880 for 18 months without one head clog. Every time I fire up the printer, I print a head clean test to be sure....always solid bars.
I do try to turn on the printer and print at least once a week. I have had the printer off for as long as three weeks while I was traveling with no head clogs.
You will need to agitate your ink to keep the pigments in suspension on a regular basis for consistent density.
Ok, no gloss. That helps. QTR is very inexpensive and quite flexible. Many who use BW inksets use it. While it might be possible to flush and refill your old cartridges, it's not a good idea. Get a set of funnel fill cartridges for your 4800. If you go Piezography, get their cartridges. That way if there's an issue, they'll be better able to help you out.
Regarding head clogging, all pigment inks will show some settling over time, with some dilutions/inks being more prone to it than others. Regularly agitating the cartridges and printer helps immensely, as does regular printing. I've had clogs with Epson inks, Piezography inks, and Mis inks.
An R2880 is very different from your 4800, with the former being much more of a consumer machine. (I had a r2400 before my 4800.) More importantly, if you do a lot of printing, you'll find that you regularly have to change the extremely small ink cartridges.
As has been said before by a number of people now, the only way "...to know there is a difference in the output for 800 dollars and change...." is to get some sample prints made.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
Thanks Peter... i intend to ask Jon to see if he would print a sample for me.....K3 vs K7...
I am going to get the Cone carts, but do i use them for the flush and rinse them out or do i need a new set of cartridges?
QTR setup for Cone inksets is plug and play, literally nothing to learn other than the exact settings.. just follow the instructions. Pay ther $50 shareware fee.
The various Epson printers here with Ultrachrome, Ultrachrome HDR, Cone Peizotone, and Cone K7, inks, the Cone inks "clog" the least.
Tyler
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