Has anyone had any experience with a Schneider Apo-Tele 400/5.6 Compact Lens wit h Copal #3 shutter on a 4x5 wooden field camera like the Zone VI or Wisner Tradi tional that they would like to share? Would appreciate any comments. Thanks in advance.
Has anyone had any experience with a Schneider Apo-Tele 400/5.6 Compact Lens wit h Copal #3 shutter on a 4x5 wooden field camera like the Zone VI or Wisner Tradi tional that they would like to share? Would appreciate any comments. Thanks in advance.
Schneider does not currentlymake a 400 mm lens and to the best of my knowledge enver hs (could be wrong). They do make a 480 Apo symmar and have made a 480 Apo Artar. Are you referring to either of these lenses?
Nick - I've just recently purchased the 400/5.6 Tele-Xenar Compact - have very limited experience with it. I use it on my Toyo 45AII and stability is no problem. It is a sizable lens, with the Copal #3...seems to be very sharp and contrasty - though I have not done any extensive testing. I've never used one of the wooden field cameras you mentioned, so can't say how it would perform on them. Good luck... Bill
My apologies, I stand corrected. Only one further general comment, The Wisner Traditional is a sturdy beast, so is the Zoen VI (dpendign on the model) so if it presents no stability problems on a Toyo AII it should be ok on one of those.
A question for Bill though, how much bellows extenstion does the lens require when focused at infinity and at shorter working distances ... say 15 feet? Any lens starts to present problems if the mount is not solid enough when the bellows is fully or nearly fully extended. Thus, it would depend on the applications that nick is going to be using the lens for. if it is all at infinity andl like most telephoto designs, a fairly modest bellows extension is all that is needed then all should be well.
hope this is more helpful than my first response <smile>.
An addendum ..... a tired night here .. you are sacrificing an awful lot in the way of coverage vs. a 360 mm Apo symmar if that is long enough. Taker a look at the specs. I am not an expert on the Wisner or the Zone VI but either one should be abel to handle the 360 mm lenses although probablynot the 480 Apo Symmar.
Nick and Ted: On 4X5 you do need the very large image circle from a regular Apo Symmar 360mm, in fact it becomes an encumbrance with all that light which can reduce image contrast. Telephotos generally do not match up to the image quality from regular lenses, study the MTF for the Schneider 400 Tele and you can verify that readily. 'Relatively' it is a compact lens, but still a large heavy lens. I would rather have a Rodenstock 360mm Apo Ronar which is a smaller lens of great sharpness and lighter than the 400 Tele. You will not miss the 40mm from the tele. Some of the Zone VI I believe can take that focal length.
Nick,
Sorry to answer a question with a question, but have you considered the 450mm Fu jinon C? It's a LOT smaller and lighter than APO-Tele Xenar Compact (Copal #1, 52mm filters, 270g vs. Copal #3, 82mm filters, 916g). The Fuji is also consider ably cheaper ($995 vs. $1275 from one reputable source) and has more coverage (n ot that either lens will limit you for 4x5 use, but if you ever decide to move u p to 8x10, the Fuji will cover with ease, the Tele Xenar will not).
Since you mention two wooden field cameras, I'll assume (perhaps incorrectly) th at you seek to use this lens for general landscape photography. Both cameras yo u mention have enough bellows extension to focus the 450mm Fujinon C at infinity (ftf = 425.3mm ~ 16 3/4") - and a little closer. How much closer depends exact ly on which models. Other than the early Wista made Zone VI, most Zone VI camer as have about 18" of bellows extension with the standards in the neutral positio ns (more by combining front base and axis tilts). I believe the Wisner Traditio nal has a bit more (20", if I'm not mistaken). For comparison, I've used the 45 0mm Fujinon C on a Canham DLC with about 20" of bellows extension and found it t o be a very usable combination for general purpose landscape photography.
The benefit of a telephoto design is that it requires less bellows extension tha n a non-telephoto of comparable focal length. To me, the trade-off for a long l ens for use with a field camera has always been: light, short bellows camera + h eavy telephoto lens vs. heavy triple extension camera + lightweight non-telephot o lens. The combination you are contemplating is, IMHO the worst of both (heavy expensive camera + heavy expensive lens). If you are going to pay the extra mo ney and lug around the extra weight of a long bellows camera (like a Zone VI or Wisner), I don't understand the motivation behind buying an expensive, heavy tel ephoto lens. In other words, if you have the bellows extension to use a non-tel ephoto design, why would you want to pay more for a heavier lens in a bigger shu tter that takes bigger, more expensive filters and has less coverage and possibl y inferior (but still probably quite good) performance?
Although the Wisner and some Zone VI models are resonably sturdy as far as woode n field cameras go, given the choice, I'd rather use a 9 1/2 oz. lens in a Copal #1 shutter with these cameras than subject them (and myself) to the strain of a 2 lb. beast in a Copal #3. It would be totally different if you were consideri ng a short bellows camera with only about 12" of bellows. In that case, your ON LY option in a lens this long would be a telephoto design (but even then, but Ni kon and Fuji make lighter 360mm - 400mm telephotos in Copal #1 shutters). To me , the real reason to buy a long bellows field camera is to be able to easily use long focal length lenses of standard, non-telephoto design. Coversely, the onl y reason to buy a telephoto lens is if your camera doesn't have enough bellows t o use a non-telephoto design.
Kerry
Kerry said it all .. the only thing I would add is that if you also use 8x10 then the non telephoto lenses give you coverage for that format as well while the telephoto designs do not.
To answer Ted's question...with my Toyo 45AII, I max out with about 325mm of bellows (from memory, but I think that's about right). That'll let me focus in to about 12 feet or so with the 400 Tele- Xenar Compact - plenty for most of my landscape work. With the lens focused at infinity, it draws 285mm. That does put it out there a ways on my Toyo. I was interested in getting the longest possible lens I could use on the Toyo and, as far as I could tell, the 400 tele is probably it. The size is a bit of a concern - and I probably won't take it backpacking. I've got a much lighter Nikon 300 M that I'll use for my long glass when trying to go light. The 400 Schneider does seem like a fine lens.
regards, Bill
Kerry is absolutely right, but f12.5 is f12.5. If weight, size and stablity is not a problem then f5.6 is a joy to use, especially in a long lens.
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