Pyro for thick emulsion film?

[Bill_1856]

In addition to the staining effect, does developing in Pyro give a broader effective sensitivity to thick emulson films (such as Adox CHS or Arista.EDU Ultra) than standard developers such as D76, Rodinal, or Xtol?
I am anticipating using the film in an ancient camera with a single shutter speed, and Gawd knows what it is, probably around 1/25 or 1/50. I want as much wiggle room with the exposure as possible.
At least the aperture is marked F:9/11/16 which is probably ASA not the old US designation.
Diafine is not an option as for once I don't need/want the extra speed, and I've never had any luck with stand development.

[jp]

For maximum wiggle room, some ND filters might get you the exposure you're after.

I think there are film exposure limitations that are not resolved by magic bullet developer. I think it kinda depends on the subject matter and how fussy you are about dense highlights and how you can deal with contrast by VC printing or scanning. If you overexpose the shadows and there aren't much for highlights, printing it shouldn't be a problem for example. I think with PMK you can overexpose the highlights a bit more than d76/xtol as it will compress them a little.

[onnect17]

In addition to the staining effect, does developing in Pyro give a broader effective sensitivity to thick emulson films (such as Adox CHS or Arista.EDU Ultra) than standard developers such as D76, Rodinal, or Xtol?
I am anticipating using the film in an ancient camera with a single shutter speed, and Gawd knows what it is, probably around 1/25 or 1/50. I want as much wiggle room with the exposure as possible.
At least the aperture is marked F:9/11/16 which is probably ASA not the old US designation.
Diafine is not an option as for once I don't need/want the extra speed, and I've never had any luck with stand development.

Bill, you should visit pyrocat-hd.com for links
IMHO, its the staining the one doing the magic. Also, check with Sandy for details.
Here's a shot developed in pyrocat-hd using a small tank. I was in Myakka State Park two weeks ago.

[Jay DeFehr]

Hi Bill,

I too have a few old cameras with just one shutter speed and aperture. I usually figure these things were made to use Verichrome, or similar, on sunny days, outdoors. I also figure if the shutter isn't accurate, it's probably slow. Your camera might not relate to any of my assumptions, but I tend to use ISO 100 films in these things. Incidentally, none of the films you mention are thick emulsion films. I don't know if we can still buy thick emulsion film, unless it's X-Ray film. When I need a developer I'm sure won't let me down, I use 510-Pyro. I use it up here in Alaska shooting an old Kodak 2A, and developing in a tin can without a thermometer, graduate, timer, or film reel, and it never lets me down. I put one or two ml of 510-Pyro in about a 1/2 liter of water with my roll of film curled up in the bottom and agitate for about a minute, then take a shower. After my shower, I agitate for about another minute, then get dressed. After I'm dressed I pour out the developer and fix/wash, etc. I always get printable negatives. Why is 510-Pyro so reliable? I suspect there is no single reason, but a combination of factors. 510-Pyro has enormous developing capacity. One photographer used a 1:1000 dilution to develop 11x14 sheet film with good results, though very long developing times. So, if there's any concentrate in your developer, it will probably develop your film, given enough time. It also has excellent keeping properties. I've found old, partial bottles of concentrate of unknown origin, black as used motor oil that worked perfectly fine. It doesn't seem to be very sensitive to contamination, because it has never just outright failed the way catechol developers can. Then there's all the stuff we know about staining and tanning that make these kinds of developers so useful. Taken in aggregate, 510-Pyro is just extremely robust and simple to use. There's almost no way to abuse it. You can use it for any film format, because it produces very fine grain and excellent sharpness, and you can use any method of development you like, from trays, to tanks, to tubes, to ziplock bags, from semi-stand to rotary, and everything in-between. The only circumstance in which I would avoid it is when developing old, fogged film. The pyro will stain the fog just like it does the image silver, and exacerbate the condition.

Good luck, and have fun with your old camera. I love finding an old camera on a shelf or in a bin, putting some film in it, and making photos. I need to pass some of my old cameras along to make room for new old cameras.

[Bill_1856]

Thanks Jay. I'm so out of date that I never even heard of 510-Pyro. Guess that I'll have to find the newest edition of Anchell's handy dandy developing guide (mine is the 2nd edition, briefly mentioning Pyro).
Incidentally, I didn't know that people in Alaska showered. My u-no-what shrivels up just imagining it!

Armando, Myakka Park is my Point Lobos -- I'm out there at least once nearly every week.

[Jay DeFehr]

Bill,

I don't think you're out of date; most people have never heard of 510-Pyro, but it is in the latest Darkroom Cookbook. As for showering in Alaska, when it's -40F, a hot shower feels pretty good!

[Greg Blank]

Pyro does not increase the sensitivity, as a matter of fact few if any developers do that.

Sensistivity is measured at the toe of film which is the shadow area where exposure first occurs. Developer differences are apparent only in control the mid tones and the highlights- imop. If you typically have a wide range of values in a scene then a Pyro negative "can" contain more higher values in a printable area relative to a printing paper than say the same scene exposed and developed in say straight D76. But even that will vary depending on how the chemistry is used. In other words if you study the use of any developer you can get excellent results. For instance: I have used PMK for years, but have been recently using HC110 F dilution.

[mikebarger]

+1 for 510 Pyro, excellent developer and I have abused it.

[onnect17]

Bill, I use both, pyrocat-hd and 510-pyro with similar results IMO. Any will be good to start.
If using a Jobo go for speed. Avoid the motor base, too slow. If using small tanks, one inversion every 15 secs will do.
I'm not a fan of stand development neither.

[Robert Ley]

Armondo, I had always assumed that in the instruction for the Jobo Expert film Drums, a slower rotation speed was to be used. I have always used a slower speed on my CPA-2 and it has worked well.

Jay, I have bought the 510 pyro from you and frankly have never tried it. After this thread I am going to definitely give it a try as I am running some tests on several new films (new to me). I need ball park development times for HP-5+, TMAX 400 (new)
Arista EDU Ultra 200, and Arista EDU 200 and 400 (I think that this is Fortepan) I use a Jobo Expert as above.