Jobo Processing B&W, C-41 and Ilfochome in same gear, any issues?

[Asher Kelman]

I thought this might be hardly used but was surprised to get delivery of a brand new CAP-2 From eBay!

The great thing is that is the version after 22,000 so it should have the stronger motor and latest circuit boards!

So now I need a lift and the various 3005 and 3063 tanks and I'm a prince!

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

Well you could, of course, but it's crowded enough with 12 bottles in my closet. You could also have 4 CPA's - one dedicated for each process - but as long as you wash thoroughly after each use and not allow the chemicals to dry on them you shouldn't have anything to worry about. In my experience only the developer containers become stained. In fact, just this afternoon I stopped at a local supplier to see if they carried Sulfuric Acid and Potassium bichromate or permanganate to make a tray cleaner to clean the developing trays and Jobo bottle. Looks like I'll have to order from the Formulary.

As far as the funnel I would think that barring physical damage swopping it out would be unnecessary. Again, the only chemical that leaves a stain is oxidized developer. But the developer is the first step in any process with the rinse/wash step being the last. I follow Jobo's recommendation of 1 change of water every 30 seconds so the funnel gets a good rinsing with every run as well as my 2 liter rinsing with hot water at the end.

Thomas

Thanks for the practical advice. Now do you use an electric drier or just hang the prints. And at what stage do you use photoflo?

Do I need a print washer after processing in the drums?

Asher

[Drew Wiley]

The fix Ciba uses is ordinary non-hardening fixer, so no issues with that. The developer cause no problems either. The bleach is corrosive but won't damage plastic drums. I always do a brief rinse cycle between bleach and fix anyway, then make sure the bleach is dumped into a little plastic bucket with baking soda in it to neutralize the acid before disposal. At the end of the session I make sure all the drum components are rinsed out well and dry for the next session. Pretty simple. The biggest problem with a Jobo processor and Ciba is that the RPM is a bit high and the bleach can become overoxidated, which can slightly affect the saturation of blue vs yellow, but that's an advanced problem which shouldn't hinder basic use. Taming the pallette of
Ciba requires masking skills anyway.

[Asher Kelman]

The biggest problem with a Jobo processor and Ciba is that the RPM is a bit high and the bleach can become overoxidated, which can slightly affect the saturation of blue vs yellow, but that's an advanced problem which shouldn't hinder basic use. Taming the pallette of
Ciba requires masking skills anyway.

Thanks Drew,

So can one slow down the processor with some rheostat or replace the existing on with a great resistance range? Am I right that the dial for speed is changing resistance or is it via gears?

Asher

[Drew Wiley]

The RPM on the Jobo won't be an issue except with Ciba bleach and certain kinds of
pyro development. The motor is fairly small and doesn't seem to have the necessary
torque to handle rheostatic control with the weight of larger filled drums. So it's really
a gearing issue. The Ciba bleach gets a little too frothy and the "self-masking" chemical
feature goes a bit overboard, resulting in slightly muddy yellows and undersaturated blues. You might be able to inject argon gas into the drum during this step. I don't think shortening the bleach time will help, but you could try. You can wash the prints in the drum as long as they have ribs to get the water behind too. But I recommend a
brief additional wash in a tray or slot washer afterwards. For RA4 I change the water
in the drum six times (more than recommended, but better safe than sorry), then rinse
the front and back of the print wish a dkrm hose before I squeegee it. For Ciba I allow
at least six extra minutes in a tray with a Kodak siphon attachment. Ciba prints and
RC prints wash much faster than fiber-based prints. Jobo drums are a bit complex, so
you should rinse each component thorougly the blast the remaining water out with an
airgun from the compressor, unless there is adequate time for simple air drying of the
parts.

[tgtaylor]

Thanks for the practical advice. Now do you use an electric drier or just hang the prints. And at what stage do you use photoflo?

Do I need a print washer after processing in the drums?

Asher

I use a print dryer to dry RA-4 prints and B&W RC and air dry on screens for B&W fiber.

Photo-Flo is the very last step after the drum is opened and the film removed from the reels. Until recently I was immersing the reel for 120 sized film in the chalk tank that I use but recently I mistakenly removed a roll from the reel before I had dunked the reel in the Photo-Flo. I gently rolled-up the film and submerged it in the Photo-Flo and did the same with the other roll still on the reel. I have now adopted that as my regular procedure and no longer have to worry about build-up of Photo-Flo on the reels. This is a personal relief as I have been using only a couple of the 2500 series reels out of the dozen I have that are new.

I wash color RA-4 prints in the drum while on the processor. I follow Jobo's recommendation and use 3 changes of water at 30 seconds each except that the last change is a bit longer as that is my cue to walk back to the bathroom and turn the heat up on the dryer. I find that it takes about 45 seconds to dry an 8x10 RC print and correspondingly longer for 11x14, and 16x20 – the maximum size my dryer can do. Since I usually tray process B&W RC and fiber, I wash them in separate trays after processing or in a 20x24 print washer that I purchased specifically for large fiber prints. Try not to let your B&W RC prints go too long in the water before the final wash as a long immersion results in tattered edges. When a few prints build-up in the holding tray I will wash and dry those before printing more. Using a non-acid fixer such as TF 3, 4, or 5 allows for a shorter wash time - especially for RC.

Thomas

[Asher Kelman]

The RPM on the Jobo won't be an issue except with Ciba bleach and certain kinds of
pyro development. The motor is fairly small and doesn't seem to have the necessary
torque to handle rheostatic control with the weight of larger filled drums. So it's really
a gearing issue. The Ciba bleach gets a little too frothy and the "self-masking" chemical
feature goes a bit overboard, resulting in slightly muddy yellows and undersaturated blues. You might be able to inject argon gas into the drum during this step. I don't think shortening the bleach time will help, but you could try. You can wash the prints in the drum as long as they have ribs to get the water behind too. But I recommend a
brief additional wash in a tray or slot washer afterwards. For RA4 I change the water
in the drum six times (more than recommended, but better safe than sorry), then rinse
the front and back of the print wish a dkrm hose before I squeegee it. For Ciba I allow
at least six extra minutes in a tray with a Kodak siphon attachment. Ciba prints and
RC prints wash much faster than fiber-based prints. Jobo drums are a bit complex, so
you should rinse each component thorougly the blast the remaining water out with an
airgun from the compressor, unless there is adequate time for simple air drying of the
parts.

Drew,

Is Argon just cleaner than Nitrogen that's generally avaialble? I've no experience with Argon or how expensive it is, but Nitrogen is pretty inexpensive. Just need a water bubble trap to catch any particulates or oil from the tank. I have the CPA-2. I've read about the use of an external circulator to control the temp more precisely.

Asher

[Drew Wiley]

Nitrogen should work fine too; but I'd simply try the equipment as-is before fussing with that. The most important thing with the temp is to preheat the drum inside with
water the correct temp prior to development. And don't run the drum in especially cold
weather. Greater solution volumes (esp dev) will also help maintain temp. Ciba needs
3-min steps. For RA4, I use 2-min (shorter than that, and it becomes difficult to fill and
drain without affecting consistency). RA-4 isn't terribly stinky, but people do get quite sensitized to it, so don't let it fool you. It needs serious ventilation. With Ciba you just have the bleach to worry about (contains sulfamic acid for P-30, sulfuric for p-3).

[Asher Kelman]

Nitrogen should work fine too; but I'd simply try the equipment as-is before fussing with that. The most important thing with the temp is to preheat the drum inside with
water the correct temp prior to development. And don't run the drum in especially cold
weather. Greater solution volumes (esp dev) will also help maintain temp. Ciba needs
3-min steps. For RA4, I use 2-min (shorter than that, and it becomes difficult to fill and
drain without affecting consistency). RA-4 isn't terribly stinky, but people do get quite sensitized to it, so don't let it fool you. It needs serious ventilation. With Ciba you just have the bleach to worry about (contains sulfamic acid for P-30, sulfuric for p-3).

Drew,

That's great advice. I'll put a monster air exhaust in the window.

Do you use Argon or just don't use Ciba chemistry?

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

I use a print dryer to dry RA-4 prints and B&W RC and air dry on screens for B&W fiber.

Photo-Flo is the very last step after the drum is opened and the film removed from the reels. Until recently I was immersing the reel for 120 sized film in the chalk tank that I use but recently I mistakenly removed a roll from the reel before I had dunked the reel in the Photo-Flo. I gently rolled-up the film and submerged it in the Photo-Flo and did the same with the other roll still on the reel. I have now adopted that as my regular procedure and no longer have to worry about build-up of Photo-Flo on the reels. This is a personal relief as I have been using only a couple of the 2500 series reels out of the dozen I have that are new.

I wash color RA-4 prints in the drum while on the processor. I follow Jobo's recommendation and use 3 changes of water at 30 seconds each except that the last change is a bit longer as that is my cue to walk back to the bathroom and turn the heat up on the dryer. I find that it takes about 45 seconds to dry an 8x10 RC print and correspondingly longer for 11x14, and 16x20 – the maximum size my dryer can do. Since I usually tray process B&W RC and fiber, I wash them in separate trays after processing or in a 20x24 print washer that I purchased specifically for large fiber prints. Try not to let your B&W RC prints go too long in the water before the final wash as a long immersion results in tattered edges. When a few prints build-up in the holding tray I will wash and dry those before printing more. Using a non-acid fixer such as TF 3, 4, or 5 allows for a shorter wash time - especially for RC.

Thomas

Thomas,

What print dryers and mesh drying trays do you use? I like your idea of dunking for the Poto-flo.

Asher