Arca-Swiss F-line Field 4x5

[Tom Westbrook]

I'm totally new to large format (I don't even have a camera yet!), so apologies in advance if this is dumb. I've been looking around for a 4x5 camera that seems like it would be good for my uses (amateur; landscape & architecture mostly, bu t with a human being thrown in from time to time). I ran across the Arca F Field via Jack Dykinga's book, 'Large Format Nature Photography', and have a question about it I hope someone can answer.

The camera has a 6x9 front frame/standard and a 4x5 in the rear. Will the narrow er bellows in the front restrict movements very much (if at all) or restrict the lenses that can be used with this camera (as compared with using the 4x5 front standard, that is)? I can't find info form the company on this one, but B+H does n't mention

Thanks for the help! Tom

[Raymond Bleesz]

Tom--your question is not at all dumb or inappropriate. The AS system is confusing to the novice as it was to me, and I'm still asking questions, etc. and I am not 100% a authority.

I have the camera you are refering to--a 6x9 front & 4x5 back which is called the AS compact field--it does come with a wide angle bellows (make sure it does) i believe--My system of lenses with this particular camera with wa bellows is as follows and without problems: a 65mm, 90mm, 152mm, 155mm, 210mm. I am looking at a tele--300 to 360.

Keep in mind that if you get roll film backs as accessories, one would need 4x5 roll film backs for this particular set up.

The concept behind the AS system is that it is "modular"--ie., design a system to go up or down in size format- a very very nice Swiss feature. Raymond

[Jennifer Waak]

If you go back to the B&H web site and click on the specifications tab you can get the details about rise and fall. You will be limited to 25mm rise and 35mm fall on the front standard. I have the Discovery, which has the larger lensboard and a 100mm rise. Whether you will miss the additional rise provided with the larger lensboard or not is another matter, but for architecture you will definitely use rise -- it's just a matter of how much. But, if you look in Dykinga's book at page 56 you will see how you can "cheat" a bit to give yourself some additional rise.

In terms of lenses, I don't think you should be limited unless you get an old barrel lens that you need remounted into an old, large shutter such as an Ilex #5.

If you are thinking Arca-Swiss, give Jeff at Badger Graphics a call. He can probably answer most of your LF questions, but they are one of the few companies that stock A-S and Jeff knows his stuff.

I'd also start reading in the archives here.

Welcome to the group!

[Ted Brownlee`]

Tom,

The Arca Swiss F-line field would be an excellent choice for what you want to use it for. Looking through Jack Dykinga's book (my Christmas gift too), there are examples of him using a 58mm lens through a 400mm lens, so it should pretty much cover your needs. I have an older Arca Swiss & can attest that the movements are more than adequate. I use far more movements for the occasional commecial job that pays for my hobby than in the nature work I really enjoy.

Another resurce is The F-Stop (www.thefstop.com). They have scanned the AS system layout that shows the range of components available. I too, have had a hard time looking for specs on the Field version, but pretty much know what it is.

Good luck & welcome to LF!

[neil poulsen]

I have an AS, and I would prefer the 4x5 front along with the 4x5 back, primarily because of the expanded movements that one obtains. Is there really that much difference in weight?

[Jennifer Waak]

Tom, me again. I agree with all of the previous posters that the F-Field would work well for you. I also think the Discovery would work equally well, if not better, for half the price. The big differences between the two are that the Discovery has a regular monorail vs. the telescopic and that the Discovery has a full-sized lensboard (unless I missed something really obvious). And the Discovery is a pound lighter (FWIW). I recently traveled with mine, and it easily fit into one of the rolling carry-on bags -- just took off the bellows and turned both standards flat with the monorail. So, I could carry the camera, 3 lenses, film, meter, etc. along with clothes for padding, onto the plane.

If you think you may want to do close-up work or use really long lenses (such as 600mm), another consideration may be that the long bellows for the F-Field is 50cm and for a camera with 4x5 front and rear standard is 70cm. The included bellows on the F-Field is 24cm (so max of 240mm lens focused at infinity) while the included bellows for a camera with 4x5 front and rear standard is 30cm. I'm a bit of a long-lens person, so I notice these things.

Also, consider picking up the Steve Simmons book, Using the View Camera. It's a good intro without being too overwhelming. The Kodak view camera book is pretty good as well.

Overall, A-S is a great system, you can't go wrong.

[Marcus Leonard]

Tom, I can only endorse the suggestion of considering the Discovery. As there are various ways to turn this camera into a real small package, there seems little sense to the 6x9 front. I enjoy the Discovery a lot, it is superbly manufactured, and easy to use, even in the field.

[Sunny Ray]

Everything is a compromise, but I would go with the 6x9 front route both for practical and aesthetic reasons if I were to use an Arca Swiss.

The main advantages of using the smaller 6x9 front are size and weight. The lens board for the 6x9 is 110mm sq. whereas for a full size 4x5 front, it is 171mm sq. If you carry a few lenses, you would require a much larger case to hold the much larger (4x5 front) lens boards unless you get a reducing adapter board so you could mount all lenses in the smaller (110mm) boards. The adapter board will increase the distance from the lens to the film plane, that means you need to mount some wide angle lenses like a 75mm and down on a recessed board. The tapered wide angle bellows that comes with the 6x9 front camera is made of leather and the whole package of the Arca Swiss 45FC is one of the best-looking 4x5 cameras you will ever see.

The disadvantage of the 6x9 is the front rise (about 25mm). For landscape and wide angle work, it is adequate. But in extreme architectural situations, you may feel restricted. One solution to overcome that is to mount the lens off-axis to gain about 15mm of rise. [Fall is not a problem, as the front/back standards is a combined 130mm.]

The choice is up to you.

BTW, I think you should also consider Ebony cameras (both the folding and non-folding versions) as they offer small size, light weight and rigidity. Some Ebony models are constricted of only titanium and ebony wood. They are very pleasing to the eyes as well, according to many owners of this forum.

[David Karp]

Tom,

Here is an option that might be the best of both worlds.

I think that you will want the additional rise the Discovery offers for architecture. It is better to have your lens run out of coverage before your camera run out of movements!

If you are worried about the size of the larger lens boards, try this.

Arca-Swiss makes an adapter board that fits on the Discovery, just like its standard boards. The adapter board accepts Linhof Technika type boards. They also make an adapter that accepts the smaller Arca- Swiss 6x9 boards. The Technika adapter is probably a better bet, since the smaller Arca-Swiss boards are more expensive than the Technika boards. Also, there are lots of used Technika boards out there, and not too many small Arca Boards. This way, you can have all the movements you need, a lighter camera, smaller, less expensive, lens boards, and more room in your backpack. This set up will be perfect for architecture and carrying into the field.

If you decide to upgrade, the Discovery can be upgraded to something very close the the F-Line, for less money than buying a new F-Line.

Badger Graphics is a highly recommended source. So is the F-Stops Here. Also try Photomark in the Phoenix area (Ask for Rod). I think that Badger and Photomark might have the best prices. Both Badger and Photomark show the F-Field on their websites. Check them out.

Good luck.

[Tom Westbrook]

Thanks all for you input.

I'll check out the Discovery again. One drawback with that camera (or so I've read) is that you can't fit the other AS 'system' parts to turn it into, say, a 5x7 in the future. Is that true? [I've been tossing around the 5x7 option, too, but that's another story.] As for weight the Field is 7lbs., the Classic (with the 4x5 front) is 7.5lbs., & the Discovery is 6.6 lbs. Weights vary depending on the source used. These are from the Arca brochure, except the Field, which is from B+H.

Anyway, for an education in LF, I found a place in town that rents LF, but only Sinar f1, f2 & p2 and Horseman LX (which of those would be closest to the AS, by the way?). I'll rent a camera for a few weekends to get a better idea what my requirements are.

Thanks! Tom