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Thread: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

  1. #1
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    Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    I've read quite a few long threads on this forum about whether or not you can make C41 films look like E6 and they have gone backwards and forum ad infinitum. I thought it a good idea to challenge the 'yes you can' camp to put there money where there mouth is..

    The following article shows normalised scans of all the available large format colour films used to take the same shot.

    http://www.landscapegb.com/2011/06/c...mparison-pt-3/

    The challenge is to take the C41 photos and convert them to look like the E6 ones. That's a lot of combinations so I thought I'd make some specific challanges

    1) Take the Portra 160, Pro160S and Ektar and make them look like the velvia

    The real part of the challenge is to provide the photoshop file that contains the layers used to do so!

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...elvia%2050.jpg
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...%20default.jpg
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...%20default.jpg
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...%20default.jpg

    These were all scanned on a Howtek 4500 using DPL Pro to set neutral black and white points. If anybody would like straight scans just pm me.

    Look forward to seeing the results!
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

  2. #2
    village idiot BennehBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    Tim, I'm really not convinced by the C41 samples that you have on that site, they look _very_ flat to me. Could you describe your scanning AND post process workflow for us?

    I abandoned the built in inversion and color correction of my scanning software (vuescan) some time ago and now use the very latest techniques available withing ColorPerfect (which has come on leaps and bounds since it's ColorNeg days).
    Ben - Founding member of strange.rs | flickr

  3. #3
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    Quote Originally Posted by BennehBoy View Post
    Tim, I'm really not convinced by the C41 samples that you have on that site, they look _very_ flat to me. Could you describe your scanning AND post process workflow for us?

    I abandoned the built in inversion and color correction of my scanning software (vuescan) some time ago and now use the very latest techniques available withing ColorPerfect (which has come on leaps and bounds since it's ColorNeg days).
    As mentioned, scanned using a linear scan and then set the black and white points. I have refrained from adding contrast to this. C41 is naturally very low contrast (you can't get nearly 19 stops in a picture without it looking low contrast).

    If you look at the source article you can see where I've added basic post processing for the whole picture and then a 'graduated' contrast in the sky.
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

  4. #4

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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    You really should provide us with the full 16bit files if you want to see what can be done. Also I wish you had included the film frames around these so we can really see what was in the shadows relative to the film base.

    Also, how were the slides and negatives metered? I meter totally differently for each.

    Edit: I missed your note saying to email you for straight scans. I'll do that.

  5. #5
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...100%20DPL.jpg- (916kb)
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...0100%20pp.jpg- (346kb)
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...tar%20100.tif- (27.82Mb)
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...160%20DPL.jpg- (826kb)
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...0160%20pp.jpg- (172kb)
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...tra%20160.tif- (27.95Mb)
    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static...lvia%2050.tif- (27.96Mb)

    The DPL files are scanned using Aztek DPL Pro's ability to set curves in hardware. Black and white points were set but no gamma was applied.
    The pp files are my quick conversions (not intended to look like chromes but intended to be more 'photographic').
    The main tif files are scanned using the wide gamut negative uncorrected setting in Aztek DPL which gives the best open scan (and most close to linear) possible.

    Be aware I have added a dash to the end of each url so that crawlers and pre-page fetchers don't end up eating my bandwidth. Just click on the file and then remove the trailing - when you get a 404 page.

    I've put the images into Ekta Space where I have remembered. jpgs are 8 bit, tiffs are 16 bit.

    I'll scan the Pro160S if anybody expresses an interest

    The slides were spot metered to give a reasonable highlight at +1.5 stops on the poppies and then gradded to place the highlight in the sky about +2 to 2 1/3 (with Velvia rated at 40)

    The negs were metered to give a mid tone on the brighter foliage/poppy heads and were rated at box speed and not gradded.

    Tim
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

  6. #6
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    Quote Originally Posted by BennehBoy View Post
    Tim, I'm really not convinced by the C41 samples that you have on that site, they look _very_ flat to me. Could you describe your scanning AND post process workflow for us?

    I abandoned the built in inversion and color correction of my scanning software (vuescan) some time ago and now use the very latest techniques available withing ColorPerfect (which has come on leaps and bounds since it's ColorNeg days).
    Hi Ben, I've added a couple of post processed versions above to show very roughly how I'd start processing these. - Tim
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

  7. #7
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    I have sold allot of stock files from scanned transparencies to magazines for articles and then had to supplement them with fresh photos. If that was at a time when I was just shooting color negs for scanning or digital I would have to match the "look" of those files to to the look of the transparencies. I didn't find it all that hard, When I had the scans of the transparencies on hand to work towards. Curves, hue, saturation, clipping -its fairly straight forward.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    "Vocation to Solitude -- To deliver oneself up, to hand oneself over, entrust oneself completely to the silence of a wide landscape of woods and hills, or sea, or desert; to sit still while the sun comes up over the land and fills its silences with light." Thomas Merton

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  8. #8
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Gittings View Post
    I have sold allot of stock files from scanned transparencies to magazines for articles and then had to supplement them with fresh photos. If that was at a time when I was just shooting color negs for scanning or digital I would have to match the "look" of those files to to the look of the transparencies. I didn't find it all that hard, When I had the scans of the transparencies on hand to work towards. Curves, hue, saturation, clipping -its fairly straight forward.
    Would love to see how you do ..
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

  9. #9
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    Sorry, It is a rare proposition these days. It has probably been a couple of years since I last was asked to do such a match.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    "Vocation to Solitude -- To deliver oneself up, to hand oneself over, entrust oneself completely to the silence of a wide landscape of woods and hills, or sea, or desert; to sit still while the sun comes up over the land and fills its silences with light." Thomas Merton

    KIRK GITTINGS
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  10. #10
    Stefan
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    Re: Make C41 look like E6? A challenge!

    I've been thinking about a challenge very much like this, but I think the challenge would be more relevant for real shooting if there was no Velvia reference frame to compare to. Perhaps that could be the next challenge ?

    But anyway, it will be very interesting to see how this turns out, good luck to all who participate!

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