4x5 tray processing

[Jim Jasutis]

I just bought the Dick Arentz book "Platinum & Palladium Printing." He has a cha pter on film processing. He himself seems to lean toward tray processing, becaus e he useses an unusually large film size. I am just getting started with 4X5 and am considering tray processing for the advantages gained by not being tied to c onstant agitation. In his description of agitation he recommends lifting the fil m completely out of the developer at regular intervals. Isn't bringing the wet f ilm into contact with the air that often likely to cause problems? I would have thought you would want to keep the film submerged as much as possible. thanks - ----JimJ

[David Richhart]

Jim...it is not so much lifting out as it is shuffling the film. Much like a deck of cards. You do not necessarily pull the film out of the tray, but merely alternate the order of the sheets of film while in the developer. Though it requires a bit of caution and practice, it is an inexpensive and practical way to develop film. Photographers have been doing it for "THOUSANDS" of years!!! -Dave

[Jim Brick]

The problem is, when you shuffle the sheets, the corner of one sheet can very easily scratch the emulsion of another sheet. Many many sheets of film have been ruined by this, over thousands of years...

[Jim Jasutis]

To tell you the truth, I will be a very low volume operation, and was planning on processing one sheet at a time. So there is little danger of scratching the film. I really thought it would be proper to just slide the sheet in the developer, or maybe use a slosher type tray, and rock the developer tray from side to side and front to back to agitate. Then I read this chapter in the book that mentions that you should lift the film clear of the developer at regular intervals. I believe that the thought is this will provide a period of more aggressive agitation as the film is ripped out and then slid back in, but I am not sure if that is the idea or not.

[Jim Chinn]

I usually use a Jobo for processing sheet film, but for 8x10 and 4x5 that requires N-/N+ development I go to trays. I could never get the hang of shuffling film without scratches, so I use multiple trays with one and no more than two per tray. This also makes it easier to do a batch of negs that require different dev times. I use 5x7 trays for the 4x5 negs, two 11x14 trays for a water bath and a couple of the smaller for fixing. If you use one sheet per tray, you never have to touch the film, just rock the tray during development. If you don't want to mess with so many trays, you can take an 11x14 or 16x20 and make a divider to have 4 or 6 bays. The divider has holes drilled in it to let the developer circulate but keeps the film in place. I bring these ideas up because as you get aclimated, you are going to want to see the fruit of your efforts quicker than one sheet at a time. If you want further consistency look at various threads concerning JOBO processors, mine is superb for most jobs and formats.

Good luck and enjoy,

[Jim Jasutis]

Thank you for your response to my post. The system you describe is pretty much what I had in mind. The Arentz book even describes making a divider system by using suction cups and Q-tips stuck to the bottom of the tray. I was mainly wondering if rocking the trays gave a vigorous enough agitation. I haven't had a darkroom for years. I know I used to do prints that way, but wasn't sure if it would work for film.

There are two problems that occur to me with the JOBO system. I know one of the touted advantages is less chemical use. I just worry that just because you use enough to satisfy the tank requirements, that doesn't mean you are using an optimum amount for proper processing. In other words I worry that you might not have enough chemicals. The second problem is the idea of constant agitation. This may be ideal for color work (isn't that what the JOBO was actually designed for?), but for B&W there are definite advantages to lower agitation rates (edge effect, and higher accutance). Have you not run into either of these using the JOBO with B&W. Thanks again--JimJ

[Michael Pry]

Jim, I went through the same dilema and tried slosher trays, shuffling and ended up on the HP Combi Plan tank system. It is really good perfect negs svery time. It is a daylight tank so you can work in room light once the film is loaded. Good Luck!

Mike

[james mickelson]

When you get tired of your hands itching or having latex gloves on your wet sweaty hands, try a plain old tank w/hangers. Been done like that for "hundreds of thousands of years." You can use tupperware or make small thin plexiglass containers that hold just enough developer for one shot processing. Or like I did, get a unicolor drum with a motor base(cheap) and learn the awesome look of constant agitation developing. My negs are smoother, richer in detail, and sharp as a tack now. And no scratched film. James

[Jim Chinn]

With regards to the JOBO, I find that you get absolute consistency once you have established processing times for a given devloper and film combination. Also once film is loaded the lights stay on, which allows me to perform other tasks while the processor is running. With regards to chemistry, as long as you use the minimum required stock developer of 100-150ml as recommended by various sources for 80 sq inches of film and use at least the minimum of chemistry, there are no problems. I use older style tanks and reels that require 170ml for 6 sheets of film and total volume allows for 1-1 dilutions and 1- 2 if less film processed at one time.

With regards to agitation, you have to establish new times for processing the film, anywhere from 10-30% less then with tray or inversion. I have never seen any difference in grain between a JOBO and tray, the constant agitation just increases developer activity and thus you reach a certain degree of contrast quicker. I have tested and used a variety of developers, D-76, XTOL, HC-110 and rollo- pyro. I still have some problems getting the times down with Rollo- Pyro to equal tray with ABC Pyro, but I may stick with the trays for Pyro as I have read it is more forgiving for inspection processing. For more information on JOBO processing, John Hicks who is a frequent contributor to these forums has an article at unblinkingeye.com where he discusses these issues in greater depth.

[Jim Brick]

The only time that I used tray processing was many years ago when I used film packs. The film is very thin and there is no problem with scratching.

For forty years, I used 4x5 hard rubber Kodak tanks and hangers. This method if fool proof and super easy. Two years ago I bought a JOBO processor and now use JOBO's Expert drums for most sheet film processing. Occasionally I will use the tanks and hangers if I am using some exotic developer that I made mayself.

Since you don't have a JOBO, I suggest you use hard rubber tanks and hangers. Absolutely foolproof.