Help needed at 75mm

[Rod.F]

Hi all, hoping to get some advice about 75mm lenses. I've just got a Chamonix 045n-2 (my first film camera) and am looking for its first lens. I realise that 75mm is on the rather wide side for a first lens, however living in Hong Kong and wanting to take the types of photos I do, I think that it's the right one for me.

I initially looked at Rodenstock Grandagon N, first the f6.8 but then to the f4.5. I figured I would be using it around twilight most often so the ground glass might be too dark, right? And I would prefer more movement out of the lens, to let me enjoy using a large format camera for the first time. From there I looked at the Caltar-II N version as it seems to go cheaper, both are the same lens right? This seems to be the main option from Keh.com (I'll be buying second hand) - not a place I'd necessarily buy from but it seems to have a solid reputation.

So from there I have been to ebay to looked at the alternatives, but succeeded in only overwhelming myself. The other options seem to be the Nikon 75 f4.5s, Fuji 75 f.6 and Schneider 75 f5.6 (can't afford the 72XL).
- The Nikon seems to have the widest aperture and also image circle (at 200mm), but from the two listings I have seen (at around us$450) seems to be the cheapest... which makes me wonder why? Is it lacking in any way, like no multi coating?
- The Fuji seems interesting, athough I can only find two and there's a big price difference between the two of them ($819 vs $575). The cheaper one is the only lens out of all that I have looked at that is for sale in Hong Kong, so I have asked to have a look. Does anyone know anything about this lens? I gather that it is more popular in this part of the world than in the West.
- The Schneider, actually I don't know anything about this one other than the specs look quite good.

Would I be right in thinking that the Nikon and Fuji wouldn't need a centre filter? And would all or any need a recessed lens board?

Sorry if that is too many questions, this is my first foray into large format photography and I am hoping to minimise my mistakes, or at least not make them costly! I've tried reading around but it's got to the point where I need a bit of help.
To reduce it to one question: if you had $400 to $700ish (no need spend it all ) to buy a second hand 75mm lens for use in lowish light for architectural/cityscape coloured photos, what would you pick?

[Jim Noel]

I don't work in color so can't help you there. All lenses this wide benefit from a center filter made by the lens manufacturer.

[Brian Ellis]

Any of those lenses probably would be fine if in good condition, no need to agonize over which one to choose. Pick one based on condition (to the extent you can tell), reputation of seller (ditto), price, weight, size, image circle, and other specs. You're correct that all other things being equal, a wider maximum aperture will be easier to focus and compose. Multi-coating vs single coating isn't a big deal, I've owned a lot of single-coated lenses and they were fine though a single coated lens should sell for less than a multi-coated. No coating at all is a bigger deal.

The brand and condition of the shutter is an important consideration and you don't say anything about the shutters. I preferred Copal shutters since that's the only brand that's been made for quite a long time and will usually be newer than other brands, plus parts are probably more readily available if it needs a repair. Avoid any seller who tells you that the shutter has a problem but it can be easily and inexpensively fixed just with a CLA.

Fujis are fine lenses, the only reason I know of that they may seem to be more popular where you are than in the U.S. is that Fuji hasn't had a U.S. distributor for quite a few years. I don't know for sure if the Caltar and Rodenstock are the same lens. They probably are but the company that branded Caltars sometimes had deals with other manufacturers. I'm sure someone here can tell you for sure.

You'd probably want a center filter and a recessed lens board with any of them but I've never owned any of them. FWIW I did have an 80mm lens and used a recessed lens board but didn't need a center filter with b&w film. However, you don't necessarily have to rely on what someone says here about either of these things. You could try whatever lens you buy without these things and buy them later if it turns out that you need them.

To answer your last question, and without knowing anything more than what you say here about these lenses, I'd buy the Nikon if it and the shutter are in good condition. It apparently has the widest image circle, lowest price, biggest maximum aperture, and Nikons were fine lenses.

[William Whitaker]

I have the Nikkor SW 75mm ƒ/4.5 and it's a very fine lens. I don't shoot much 4x5, so can't give you a comprehensive review. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again, though. I do like the fact that it's slightly faster than most of the other 75's and thus a little brighter on the ground glass.

Mine is mounted on a recessed Technika board. The camera I use it on probably doesn't need it, but I had the board already, so I chose to use it to give me a little more working room. Whether or not you need a recessed board will depend on your camera.

The need for a center filter is because of the nature of wide angle optics and not because of a deficiency in any particular lens. The filter helps to compensate for the natural fall-off of illumination toward the edge of the field. Whether or not you need to use one will depend on your printing methods and personal taste.

I think it's safe to say that most any modern lens is going to be very good. I would use speed (ƒ/4.5 vs. ƒ/5.6) and price/availability on the used market as my determining factors. The Nikkors do seem to run less expensive than others, but I've been very happy with mine. Someone with more 4x5/architectural experience may have other suggestions.

[Leigh]

Another factor to consider is the "flange focal length" (FFL) of the lens. This is the distance from the lensboard to the film when focused at infinity. It's not the same as the focal length.

For short lenses, the FFL is usually a bit longer than the focal length. The three 75mm lenses in my computer database have FFLs from 81.3mm to 85.1mm.

The FFL determines whether or not you can use the lens on the camera at all, and if it requires a recessed lensboard, such as the one shown in Will's post above, or a "bag bellows". Generally you use a standard lensboard with a bag bellows, or a recessed lensboard with a standard bellows.

You can find the FFL on the manufacturer's data sheet for the lens of interest.
The Nikkor 75/4.5 has an FFL of 81.3mm. The Fujinon SWD 75/5.6 has an FFL of 85.1mm.

I have the Nikkor 75/4.5. I agree with Will that it's a very nice lens. WRT center filters as mentioned above, Nikon never made any for their lenses.


- Leigh

[Rod.F]

Thanks all for the answers so far. I will take on board the information about the shutter - admittedly something I neglected. As to the centre filter, I will likely get the lens first and see how much I need the filter. Seems I am leaning towards the Nikkor at the moment, so thanks for the picture (it's a beautiful camera) and advice with regards to coating Will and Brian. Is it possible to determine if a Nikkor has multi, single or no coating from its serial number?

Leigh, thank you for bringing the flange focal length to my attention. I checked the other two lenses, the Rodenstock Grandagon-N 75/4.5 has an FFL of 82mm and the Scheider Super-Angulon 75/5.6 has an FFL of 82.4 (coated) or 84.8 (MC). I understand what the lengths are but how I am meant to use them to determine if I can use the lens on my camera?

[Thom Bennett]

Rod,

I've been very satisfied with my Fuji 75mm. See this previous thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...t=75mm+Fujinon

[Ole Tjugen]

Rod, the very few mm difference between all these lenses is hardly significant - unless your specific camera has some kind of "hard limit" on minimum extension or some point where a bag bellows becomes absolutely necessary.

To the best of my knowledge only Schneider and Rodenstock are old enough as lens makers to ever have made uncoated LF lenses, and since that was before WWII and thus also before the current generations of wide angle lenses, that is not really relevant.

LF lenses tend to have relatively few glass/air surfaces, so the difference between single coating and multicoating is a lot smaller than in other formats. A modern zoom lens for 35mm (or dslr) may well have 20 lens groups, giving 40 surfaces - very few LF lenses have more than 8 surfaces.

Personally I have ended up with mostly Schneider lenses, from 47mm XL to 360mm - but that is pure coincidence and if I had started over from scratch it might just as well have been some other brand. The difference is, in almost all cases, totally negligible.

[Leigh]

I understand what the lengths are but how I am meant to use them to determine if I can use the lens on my camera?

Suppose, for example, that the minimum bellows draw on your camera is 90mm.

That means you need a bag bellows or recessed lensboard to use any of the 75mm lenses under discussion, all of which have FFLs in the 8xmm range.

A recessed lensboard 5mm deep would only let you use lenses with FFLs >= 85mm. A 10mm deep board would let you use any of them.

A bag bellows will generally let you use even the shortest lenses, but not always. You must check the specs for the particular camera.

- Leigh

[engl]

I use a Fuji SWD 75/5.6 on my Chamonix 045n-2 and I'm very satisfied with this combination. I have it mounted on a flat board which does allow me to reach the edge of the image circle, however, one has to be careful about bellows vignetting in portrait orientation doing so.

I'd probably be equally happy with a good sample of any modern 75mm F4.5-F5.6 wides. I like Fuji because I've had good experiences with them, my Nikon 65/4 was not as good as I'd want.