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Thread: Meandering discussion about the utility of aerial lenses

  1. #91

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Ellenwood, GA

    Re: Aerial Lenses! Show your best pictures with each lens!

    Amen, I had a hard time when showing all my soft pastel images in a popular forum, what little I post.
    Everyone there seemed to like harsh contrast, saturated, over sharpened images.
    Thus my humble start into LF.
    I really like the diversity in this forum.
    I love all the information and learning new things and new perspectives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Galli View Post
    Better than modern...........

    Worse than modern.............

    Some of us are working to a different goal than 68 line pairs in a millimeter. An uncoated Cooke Aviar with 8 air glass interfaces is not something that wins in a comparison to a multi-coated plasmat. But there are some who are bored to tears with multi-coated Plasmat look. So better & worse are highly relative terms to the user's intent.

    Each lens must be used to make actual pictures and then evaluated for what it does or doesn't bring to the table relative to the user's vision, not line pairs per millimeter.

    Process lenses and aerial lenses are not the first place I look for what I want a lens to do, but there are some exceptions. An f2.5 or 2.9 lens might have something for a 4X5 user that normally can't get that shallow a depth of field any other way. And the Aviar does have a pleasing me.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    May 2004

    Re: Aerial Lenses! Show your best pictures with each lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post

    What an encyclopedic knowledge you have collected! I atually read through your entire adventure and wonder how on earth your family dealt with all the arrivals!


    That hernia giving lens is a sculpture!


    Yours are beautiful! I like the images and the characteristic soft periphery you are infamous for! Shows one of the 2 great values of these aerial lenses: wide open for art or portraits or even landscape. You have excelled here! How heavy is heavy? Is this bigger than a Visual Quality? This might be fun to shoot with.


    Here's my hypothesis. "There might be an deal combination of aerial or survey lens and camera format with film that could deliver exceptional resolution and color in one of the common Large camera formats."

    Obviously, using 8x10 and a great modern lens I already can acquire a lot of detail. But going down to just 5x7 where some of the better aerial or surveying lenses might cover, it could be that one ends up with more detail.

    So, Guys,

    Where is the sweet spot for the most refined aerial lenses for landscape or macro with 8x10, 5x7 or 4x5 format that can be tamed to a practical relationship with the camera for the highest resolution for available B&W and or color film film in that format.

    I see Lumnars in a yellow 5x7 surveying camera minus the surveying frame that are asking $4800 or so!

    Using a glass plate is hardly practical for these shots to match up with the precision surfaces, unless the plates are readily available. Same with 5" rollfilm to match the lens MTF. What's practical. I have no problem getting a 5x7 back or else a second camera if the lens could delver stellar performance.

    The guy who sells the Jena and the like aerial and survey lenses appears to be nice interesting fellow and dedicated but I have not found any pictures to match the selling prices and there's no Jena or Czech Republic factory to call and get brochures, LOL! Who has had these lenses. Why are there no pictures? Why only one eBay seller of the Lamogen and most of the relatives?

    A pity Zeiss Jena closed! What a huge loss!

    I have a small CD showing old russian cams which i had never seen elsewhere also not in udsscameraforum. got it from KMZ officially. But they only show no lists. and specifications.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    May 2004

    Re: Aerial Lenses! Show your best pictures with each lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by Struan Gray View Post
    Asher, your application sounds perfect for a scanning or rotating panoramic camera. You get cylindrical perspective for free, and the lens only needs to cover the short dimension of the image, which boosts your chances of ultimate sharpness.

    If you must use an aerial model, there were prism-scan cameras with Biogons inside which imaged onto MF film. Otherwise your best bet in analogue would be to join the Circut brigade.

    But. Were it me, I would look seriously at the use of a scanning back in panoramic mode. Jim Collum has shown some great examples here in the forum.
    do you mean messkammer-kameras? These are multiple cameras with prisms which are aimed to get overlapping images. information from zeiss-manager.

  4. #94

    Join Date
    Dec 2001

    Re: Aerial Lenses! Show your best pictures with each lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by europanorama View Post
    do you mean messkammer-kameras? These are multiple cameras with prisms which are aimed to get overlapping images. information from zeiss-manager.
    Pardon me for jumping in. Absolutely not. No.

    Struan was referring to cameras like the Fairchild KB-18. See and He was not referring to cameras used for photogrammetry. Aerial cameras used for photogrammetry use the aircraft's motion to get the displacement needed for stereo photography.

    I don't know where he came up with the idea of "prism-scan cameras with Biogons inside."

  5. #95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Winona, Minnesota

    Re: Aerial Lenses! Show your best pictures with each lens!

    I will not show my 'best pictures' using the few aerial lenses I have because there is no remarkable quality attributable to the lenses for earth-bound (not celestial) photography. If I were to do aerial photography I still would not use them in any camera but the one built around the particular aerial lens. A bit of funny was trying to figure out how to work without the Réseau plate built into a camera. That curiosity went away quickly.

    To the best of my knowledge, aerial survey lenses are tested wide-open regardless of whether they have a diaphragm. There is where some lenses shine, in particular a late Biogon. IMHO! But I doubt they perform better than later biogons. (One possible difference is with the 3" Pacific Optical which has a rear lens larger than 4x5 thus has little appreciable fall-off when used over 4x5, but 'better' aesthetically it is not)

    I worked at Upper Heyford Air Force Base with American and some British forces when it was an air-recon base in the Sixties. (I won't tell which is me in that goofy picture.) A good friend was an aerial photo technician so I saw some of the terrific-looking gear used in the Voodoo RF-101 and U2. When I saw the photo interpreters (PIs) at work I had the revelation that changed my view of the utility of very expensive optics for recon work - humans viewing stereographs through simple optical binoculars did the hard work. No machine at the time could do the kind of work experienced PIs did. Pursuing lp/mm remained an interest for some time until it was clear that it was a curiosity and a waste of time for me.

    My friend's wife was a local school teacher and he got a picture of her through the window of her building from a Voodo test flight. If you were not clued into what you were looking at it was really obscure.

  6. #96

    Join Date
    Dec 2013

    Re: Meandering discussion about the utility of aerial lenses

    Groovy Jaguar Mk VII...

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