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Thread: seagull 6x12 back

  1. #1

    seagull 6x12 back

    hello there

    I'm a relative newcomer to large format. I've done a little shooting with 6x17 o n (hired) cameras designed soley for that format, and briefly used a 4x5 technic al camera with a horseman 6x9 rfh. Now i'm looking for a "price conscious" syste m of my own that will allow me to shoot at something approaching a panoramic for mat. I have access to an old Wista 45 (metal bodied) camera and am contemplatin g buying a 6x12 back for it - this being the cheapest way i can see into the for mat (i don't much fancy cropping 4x5 film).

    Overwhelmingly the concensus seems to be that the Horseman rf back is probably t he most reliable option at 6x12, but before I go out and spend a very sizable ch unk of money on said item, i'd like to find out if anyone out there has any expe rience of using a 6x12 back manufactured by Seagull in China. I've heard this th ing variously described as 'agricultural', and 'ugly', but where aesthetics are concerned i'm far more concerned about what's in front of the lens, than behind it. Thus far I haven't found anyone actually saying that - functionally - the se agull back doesn't do the job (eg. not being capable of maintaining a flat film plane, notorious for eating film or - worst of all - not actually light tight). One of the very few references i can find to the back is in a generally favourab le article about ShenHao cameras, posted - i believe - elsewhere on this site

    Painful experience suggests that you get what you pay for where photographic equ ipment is concerned and certainly i haven't come across a dedicated army of seag ull 6x12 advocates out there (yet?), but at just US$230 + shipping, i'd like to find out whether this particular piece of kit is a worthless lemon or a hidden t reasure, before i take the plunge.

    Can anyone help?

    many thanks, and apologies if this duplicates other questions, i've had a good l ook and it doesn't seem to.

    andy lock

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    103

    seagull 6x12 back

    I can't answer you question, but maybe you can answer mine... There's not a lot of seagull stuff in the USA. Some cheap medium format tlr's and paper and stuff. What else do they make? Is there a web site that shows all their line? Any importers? Many catalogs cary the $150 tlr's, but I've never seen the back you mention. Am I just overlooking it or is it not readily available in the US? What about other large format items???

  3. #3

    seagull 6x12 back

    Dear Andy, if you read the different entries concerning Shen-Hao, you know I have been somehow involved importing a small number of cameras , my opinion on the cameras was and id very good but I have my reservations concerning some Shen-Hao products and this includes the 6x12cm rollfilm back, save a little more and get youself something better, horseman was my choice but if you want to buy something even more "excellent" (so to speak...) buy Sinar, other than that Calumet has risen many doubts and wouldn't bother. Good luck

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 1998
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    Loganville , GA
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    14,409

    seagull 6x12 back

    612 comes in 2 sizes.

    Linhof Technorama 612 PCII and the Linhof Techno Rolex 612 back are 56 x 120mm.

    Sinar, Horseman, Calumet and most others are much smaller, about 56 x 111 to 112mm depending on the manufacturer.

    This can be quite a dramatic difference when the same scene is shot with the same lens (see Joe Meehan's book Panoramic Photography which shows the difference.

  5. #5

    seagull 6x12 back

    That extra 8mm can also make quite a dramatic difference to your wallet. Bob is right. The image size of the Lihnof Techno Rollex is indeed 8mm (less than 1/3" for the metric impaired) wider than the Horseman 6x12 back. I just checked the prices at B&H and a new Linhof Techno Rollex will run you $2917.95 vs. $789.95 for the Horseman 6x12. That comes to ONLY an extra $266 PER ADDITIONAL MILLIMETER.

    Or you could buy 12 of the Seagull 6x12 backs the original poster asked about and still have enough money left over for your first 50 rolls 120 film for what it would cost to buy one Techno Rollex - but at least you'd get that extra 8mm.

    I suspect the reason Horseman (and others) call their 56mm x 112mm backs 6x12 is because the image size is EXACTLY 2x the 56mm x 56mm that Hassleblad (and everybody else) calls 6x6.

    Seriously, I'm sure the Linhof back is a wonderfully engineered, meticulously crafted marvel of a roll film back, but the guy asked about a $230 6x12 back and you really think that extra 8mm is going to convince him to fork over an extra 2600 bucks?

    To be fair to Bob and Linhof - I should point out that the Sinar Zoom II back is priced at $2893 at B&H. So, although it looks hideously expensive compared to the Chinese made 6x12 back (and even the Japanese made Horseman 6x12 back), compared to other high quality European made panoramic roll film backs, the Linhof is priced competitively. And with the Sinar, you don't even get the extra 8mm. But you do get the ability to mix 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 and 6x12 in any combination on a single roll.

    Of course, comparing a $2900 roll film back to one costing $230, is not exactly apples:apples (at least I HOPE it's not). Which is why I nearly fell off my chair laughing when Bob suggested the original poster might want to consider the $2900 Linhof back, with it's extra 8mm of image area, as an alternative to the $230 back he asked about.

    Andy, I also noticed the Seagull 6x12 back on their web site, but haven't been able to get any additional info. From the pictures on the web site, it looks like it uses a "Red Window" type of film advance (like the old roll film folders). So, no film counter (you read the numbers off the paper film backing). This is a bit crude, but functional - and certainly cuts down on the mechanical complexity of the back. This very simplistic design, combined with inexpensive Chinese labor accounts for the very low price of this back compared to the others. For more info, you might want to try to contact Jack Holt at: jaholt@bellsouth.net for more info. Jack is the US importer for the Shen Hao cameras, so he might be able to get you more info on the 6x12 roll film back as well.

    Personally, I'd like to get my hands on one for review to see if it's any good. If it holds the film flat and in the right place, I think a lot of people would be willing to put up with the totally manual film advance (hey, we're talking large format users here who are used to doing things the "old fashioned" way) in exchange for the ultra low price. I just bought a used, but near new condition, Horseman 6x12 back yesterday for $400. So, I'd have something to compare it too. I also have one of the Canham 6x17 backs on the way (as soon as it's actually made) for review. Looks like I'm going to be shooting a lot of roll film panoramas over the next few months. If I haven't offended Bob too much, maybe he'd be willing to send me one of those fabulous Techno Rollex backs so I could do a complete article on panoramic roll film backs.

    Kerry

  6. #6

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    seagull 6x12 back

    Kerry,

    "Bob suggested the original poster might want to consider the $2900 Linhof back"

    I did no such thing!

    I listed facts!

    If you are writing an article for a US magazine we would be happy to loan a unit for testing. All that needs to be done is that you have the editor ask ask.

    The editors normally do this all the time. Usually the editor requests information and a picture first and then has us send the item to either the magazine or the writer. Two editors requested product from us just yesterday.

    Please don't try to change what I write.

    When I simply state a fact and list differences I am informing. I am not recommending.

    had I then I would have pointed out also that the Linhof back, while a larger opening, holds film much flatter then any other 612 back from any other manufacturer.

    And, oh yes, 6x6 is not a perfect square. carefully measure one.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    96

    seagull 6x12 back

    I'd be interested in more info about the seagull back. If it does keep film flat it could be a good deal. The good thing about "red window" counters is that you always get good frame spacing!

  8. #8

    seagull 6x12 back

    Bob wrote: "I listed facts!"

    The one fact you forgot to mention is that the Linhof back costs 12.68x ($2917.95 vs. $230) as much as the back the poster asked about. Your "answer" contained absolutely no information what-so-ever about the back the original poster asked about.

    "had I then I would have pointed out also that the Linhof back, while a larger opening, holds film much flatter then any other 612 back from any other manufacturer."

    Oh good, so you've actually tested the Chinese made back against the Linhof (you must have some data to back up your claim - unless you're just "assuming" the Linhof holds the film flatter)? Please provide us with the test results showing how film flatness of the Chinese made back compares to the Linhof. Might as well post the results for the Horseman and Sinar 6x12 backs as well. These results would be very helpful to potential buyers who are in the market for a 6x12 roll film back. Much more meaningful than blanket statements with nothing to back them up. I eagerly await the posting of this data.

    Kerry

  9. #9

    seagull 6x12 back

    Eric wrote:

    "The good thing about "red window" counters is that you always get good frame spacing!"

    And they never wear out.

    Kerry

  10. #10

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    seagull 6x12 back

    "12.68x ($2917.95 vs. $230)"

    That one dealer's price. It is not necessarily the price another dealer would and could charge.

    Your reference source is not the most accurate.

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