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Thread: Reciprocity failure...

  1. #11
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Quote Originally Posted by jb7 View Post
    Shouldn't that be Reciprocity Effect ?

    'Failure' is so judgmental...
    AA agrees with you in The Negative:

    “This is commonly known as ‘failure of the reciprocity law,’ but I prefer the term reciprocity effect as it is not actually a ‘failure.’ ”

    If you’re really good, it should be known as reciprocity success!

    Some of my photos look like Reciprocity Ruins.

  2. #12
    Vlad Soare's Avatar
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    I don't have Mees's book at hand, but I think he called it Reciprocity Law Failure, or something to that effect.
    If in doubt, you can call it the Schwarzschild Effect.

    I prefer the term reciprocity effect as it is not actually a ‘failure.’
    I disagree. It is a failure. The film should comply with the reciprocity law, but it fails to do that.

    If you’re really good, it should be known as reciprocity success!
    Indeed, but you could be as successful if the film didn't exhibit this effect, and much easier at that. If you're really good you can fight it and be successful in spite of it, but never because of it. So, I'd associate the success thing with you, not with this effect.

  3. #13
    joseph
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad Soare View Post

    I disagree. It is a failure. The film should comply with the reciprocity law, but it fails to do that.



    Shouldn't that be read as a failure of the Law, rather than the film?

    I hate to reference the Wiki, but it's too easy to go there.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_law#Description

    True, some films perform better than others, over a wider range of exposure durations and intensities, but I can't think of one that is entirely blameless...

    If the film is guilty, then the law is an ass, and perhaps we should begin a campaign for its immediate repeal...

  4. #14
    Vlad Soare's Avatar
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Shouldn't that be read as a failure of the Law, rather than the film?
    I don't know, but I'm inclined not to think so, because the law is not merely a description of how the films happen to work, but rather a technical condition that films are purposefully made to comply with, in order to make the photographers' job easier.
    Film manufacturers design films specifically to obey this law, though unfortunately this is only possible to a limited extent and requires compromises, which is why different films exhibit such different behaviours when it comes to the Schwarzschild effect.

    If the law were a mere description of the films' natural behaviour, then I would agree that it's a failure of the law. But since the law was made for us, and films are specifically designed to comply with it as closely as possible, I'd say that it's actually the films that fail.

    If the film is guilty, then the law is an ass, and perhaps we should begin a campaign for its immediate repeal...
    No, we shouldn't. The law was made to help us, not the films. The only reason for the films' existence is to serve us, and they must obey our laws because we say so, whether they like it or not. If the film doesn't like it, let it start its own legal campaign.

  5. #15
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Quote Originally Posted by jb7 View Post
    Shouldn't that be Reciprocity Effect ?

    'Failure' is so judgmental...
    Okay... let's call the film reciprocitically challenged and give it a time out.
    Yeah. I'm familiar with Photoshop. It's the place I buy my film.

  6. #16
    Vlad Soare's Avatar
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Okay... let's call the film reciprocally challenged and give it a time out.
    Amen.

  7. #17

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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    For delta 100:
    y = 1.953x + 0.1064x^2
    Where x is metered exposure and y is corrected exposure.

  8. #18
    8x10, 4x5, ..., Tessina
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Quote Originally Posted by jb7 View Post
    Shouldn't that be Reciprocity Effect ?
    Actually it's "Reciprocity Law failure".

    - Leigh

  9. #19
    8x10, 4x5, ..., Tessina
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad Soare View Post
    I disagree. It is a failure. The film should comply with the reciprocity law, but it fails to do that.
    Film is a chemical entity. It behaves according to natural laws.

    The "Law of Reciprocity" is our attempt to describe the interaction of light with film.

    To the extent that the observed interaction is not as expected, the failure lies with the law, for failing to properly describe the events under the given circumstances.

    - Leigh

  10. #20
    8x10, 4x5, ..., Tessina
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    Re: Reciprocity failure...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu View Post
    I still haven't delved into the world of Fuji but I suppose I will sooner or later if it's a readily available film.
    I would strongly recommend you try Fuji Acros. It's readily available in 4x5 and smaller sizes.

    It's probably the world champ for reciprocity characteristics... NO correction at all for exposures up to 120 seconds (2 minutes), and only 1/2 stop increase for exposures from 120 to 1000 seconds (almost 17 minutes).

    It's only available in 100 speed. Fuji Neopan 400 is a completely different film.

    - Leigh

    nb - One point that caused some confusion earlier this year was that Fuji discontinued the 10-sheet 4x5 packaging, replacing it with a 20-sheet package. Some people interpreted this to mean that Acros was discontinued in 4x5 size, which is untrue.

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