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Thread: $5,000 Postcards

  1. #101

    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    The amount of money involved vs. the amount of money real art pulls in is simply the sad commentary on the state of public mind in general.
    Amen

  2. #102
    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    But even that aside, I struggle to understand who in their right mind would consider anything remotely resembling those colors anything but fake! Those look like a bad acid trip, for crying out loud!
    Since I've never dropped acid, what do colors look like on a good acid trip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    And he's not the only one - there are people who stack polaroid over intensifier, underexpose a bit to squeeze all Velvia has to offer, with a little help from Cibachrome in the end for good measure and then peddle the result as "handcrafted", "factual" and "unmanipulated".
    That's one thing that Adams never did. He never called any of his prints a factual representation of nature. He always said that the values in the print had nothing to do with what it looked like at the time. And yet people now value them. For what, really? There's a sales pitch with Adams, and there's a sales pitch with Lik. I don't think that there is much overlap between the B&W market and the saturated color market. Lots of people have told me that they want nice colors in the picture. Different products are for different markets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    THOSE people aren't buying real art no matter what, it's simply way bellow their perception threshold. They are out there wanting to be lied to and PL and people like him are simply fulfilling that desire. The amount of money involved vs. the amount of money real art pulls in is simply the sad commentary on the state of public mind in general.

    No sense getting all upset about it, that's all I'm saying.
    If the art is being sold as "this looks great on your wall" then there's no lie. There is a market for velvet Elvis paintings! If Picaso made a velvet Elvis painting, then it would be worth something because it was Picaso who painted it. (Which shows the cult power of a name.) Lik wants to cash in on that kind of recognition, too. He created his market, and he's making his money. At some point he will have saturated his market, like Kincade.

    In Seattle there are some artist co-ops (SOIL, Union Art Co-op, Sunny Arms). Do these have the same market reach as a series of single-artist galleries? Of course not. If somebody wants their art to have a market, then it needs to be advertised and marketed. A person has to start somewhere, and get busy doing it.

  3. #103

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    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    Without the tree and the hyperbole, the image looks much like one of the astronomy images one could download in ~100MB file size from the Hubble Space Telescope, via NASA...

    Don't know if he's doing his own photographic composites or not, but I am suddenly reminded of the old maxim: "If they're lying about the little stuff, they're lying about the big stuff".

    A $5000 photographic print is a contract with the buyer that it's not only something special and pretty to look at but that it actually represents what you purport it to be. Like any contract you're a party to, if you find out otherwise, it may be grounds for a civil suit.

    Anyone making $200 million per year had better have an asbestos suit handy if they can't back up their imagery and associated public statements about it. (Or that $200 Million will soon be leaking away. )

  4. #104

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    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    There's a sales pitch with Adams, and there's a sales pitch with Lik. I don't think that there is much overlap between the B&W market and the saturated color market. Lots of people have told me that they want nice colors in the picture. Different products are for different markets.
    Precisely. And here we have a bunch of mostly B&W (and some "nice colors") people slinging mud on Lik because of his choice of market and the way he is doing his colors. Since they are all photographers and most if not all making less revenue than him, the mud looks and smells awfully lot like sour grapes, even if it might be richly deserved.

    We also have a few hyper-Velvia types and I've never seen or heard anybody say anything about their colors. Could it be coincidental that they are not making nearly as much as Lik?

    Maybe, maybe not, but perception is a powerful thing and some of the mud always sticks to the slingers as well. That's all I'm saying.

    P.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    Since I've never dropped acid, what do colors look like on a good acid trip?
    I'm pretty sure you've never seen dogs or cats raining down from the sky either...

  5. #105
    Vlad Soare's Avatar
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    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    Marko, I have great respect for you, and I always enjoy reading your replies, but sometimes I have the feeling that you enjoy being the devil's advocate, that you like to argue just for the sake of arguing.

    I don't care about his choice of colors, and I don't give a damn about whether his images are fabricated or not. All that bothers me is that he pretends they're not. I believe that those images sell so well not just because of their super-saturated colors (well, maybe a few do), but because the buyers believe they're one of a kind, extremely difficult to make.
    He resorts to lies to fool ignorant people into buying. Selling ugly images to tasteless people is OK, but using blatant lies to sell them is not, at least in my book.

    That's what I was trying to say (but I'm sure you already know that ).
    Last edited by Vlad Soare; 8-May-2011 at 02:32.

  6. #106
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    A transparent lie about fabricated images may just be part of character enhancement. 200 years ago Niccolo Paganini, the greatest violinist of his day, seemed to encourage rumors that his talent came from being in league with the devil. It worked then; it works now. Consider the life style of many of today's celebrities. If they can't be good, they can always be scandalous and perhaps become famous.

  7. #107

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    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad Soare View Post
    Marko, I have great respect for you, and I always enjoy reading your replies, but sometimes I have the feeling that you enjoy being the devil's advocate, that you like to argue just for the sake of arguing.
    Thanks Vlad, the respect is completely mutual. And yes, I do - sometimes! - enjoy being a devil's advocate, especially in heated/controversial/etc. topics. It's not about arguing for its own sake, it's more of a method for reaching a conclusion.

    Especially in cases like this, when everybody gangs up on somebody or something without clear reasons for it. I never liked mob mentality, even if - or should I better say especially if - the target is somebody I don't particularly like myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad Soare View Post
    I don't care about his choice of colors, and I don't give a damn about whether his images are fabricated or not. All that bothers me is that he pretends they're not. I believe that those images sell so well not just because of their super-saturated colors (well, maybe a few do), but because the buyers believe they're one of a kind, extremely difficult to make.
    He resorts to lies to fool ignorant people into buying. Selling ugly images to tasteless people is OK, but using blatant lies to sell them is not, at least in my book.

    That's what I was trying to say (but I'm sure you already know that ).
    I know exactly what you mean. My point is not his choice of colors, my point is that nobody at their right minds and healthy eyes can take those colors for anything but fake, no matter what anybody says. Therefore, he's more likely to be telling sea stories to a willing audience then outright lies to unsuspecting "marks". His galleries, his stories, his demeanor and his TV show are all just part of that show.

    At any rate - and this was my main point - it never looks too good when people in the seemingly same line of work begin roundly criticizing someone who appears to be more financially successful at that than most of them.

  8. #108

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    Re: $5,000 Postcards

    Ahh Yes, P Lik
    I moved to Cairns, Qld about 12 years ago, when this guy was in his prime there and I have to say I raised a silent cheer when he finally closed his gallery and migrated to the US (now you guys can have him).
    I have always found his work to be quite sterile and souless and the self-aggrandising and ego-stroking interviews and attitudes he continually perpetuated about himself and towards other photographers only enhanced my opinions towards him.
    I met him only once when I was out shooting LF and smiled and tried to strike up a conversation but he just elbowed past me with a sneer and a "get out of my way". Apparently I was shooting HIS waterfall.

    Without wanting to sink to rumour or slander, nonetheless this tale I shall also tell.

    When I first moved to Cairns and found the LF landscape market stitched up by this guy and a couple of others I wrote to him saying I would like to meet him and even work for him (choke) as I was interested in anything pertaining to LF Wilderness Gallery work.
    I never heard back from him.
    I heard afterwards that he only employed beautiful young women as his assistants and that he had recently settled with his last assistant for a 5 figure sum after he began sleeping with her (this was in the local paper).
    Pretty soon after an add came out in the local employment section needing a Photography assistant / Gallery operator with good graphic design skills who must also look good in a swimsuit. (He didn't do swimsuit work).
    The rest I leave to imagination.

    I still feel dirty thinking about the guy

    cheers
    Steve
    Home is always just beyond the next photograph
    Tumut, NSW, Australia
    A Glass Eye & Three Wooden Legs

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