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Thread: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

  1. #1

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    Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    I'm sure this one has been discussed quite a bit, but I thought a more current time posting would be nice to see what people have experienced over the years and in present time. Some questions I have:

    1) What are the advantages and disadvantages of shooting with anything larger than whole plate (i.e. 8X10 and larger)?

    2) How similar is the experience of shooting with a 6.5X8.5 camera vs. an 8X10?

    3) If one is to "primarily" do contact printing, would 6.5X8.5 even be large enough by comparison to the larger sized prints attainable from 8X10 on up?

    Any further discussion is greatly welcome. I know my own feelings on this one, but I wished to see what others felt and to see if my own views align/agree and most interestingly, if something I do not know comes around in the discussion because an ancient practice can still achieve learning/knowledge even in this day of age...which is why I proposed the topic with the experienced in the field from past and even in present time.

    Thanks all and hope this post is helpful in some way or makes for some fruitful discussion!

  2. #2

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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    ...1) What are the advantages and disadvantages of shooting with anything larger than whole plate (i.e. 8X10 and larger)?...
    Advantages: larger contact prints and/or an aspect ratio that appeals to you more than that of whole plate. Disadvantages: more weight/bulk, both camera and holders.

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    ...2) How similar is the experience of shooting with a 6.5X8.5 camera vs. an 8X10?...
    In my experience, identical except for less bulk and weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    ...3) If one is to "primarily" do contact printing, would 6.5X8.5 even be large enough by comparison to the larger sized prints attainable from 8X10 on up?...
    Entirely up to you. It's large enough for me and perfect for mounting in an 11x14 frame. However, I'm neither filling huge wall spaces nor selling any work, therefore don't need to appeal to anyone's taste but my own. The market does seem to like large prints these days, so an enlarger still could prove valuable. In that regard, whole plate has another advantage over 8x10 since even a marginal light source in a Beseler 8x10 conversion provides full, even illumination.

  3. #3

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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Advantages: larger contact prints and/or an aspect ratio that appeals to you more than that of whole plate. Disadvantages: more weight/bulk, both camera and holders.

    In my experience, identical except for less bulk and weight.

    Entirely up to you. It's large enough for me and perfect for mounting in an 11x14 frame. However, I'm neither filling huge wall spaces nor selling any work, therefore don't need to appeal to anyone's taste but my own. The market does seem to like large prints these days, so an enlarger still could prove valuable. In that regard, whole plate has another advantage over 8x10 since even a marginal light source in a Beseler 8x10 conversion provides full, even illumination.

    Thanks for you opinion Sal,

    One thing that caught me by surprise is a person saying it was much more difficult using his Tachihara (standard/non bellows extension) based 8X10 vs. his Crown Graphic and other 4.5 cameras. Some other words about DOF vs. smaller formats and so on. I personally feel a contact print is the way to go and this is where I am on this fineline of whole plate vs. a camera I have right now that if I could ever have work done to it, would do an 11X14 back without a sweat (It measures 14X17, with the wood portion/cutout being 14X14 and the bellows cutout being 13X13)...so very little to go to get to having the 14" side worked out. At the same time this larger camera can use reducing backs all the way down to 4X5...just as the whole plate can use them down to 4X5. The "only" thing I see as problematic is the whole plate being so easily transportable when it comes to say, travelling around the world with the view...but for hikes/and any travel around here or if I stayed in a place for a good while in Europe, the larger cam woud be no problem at all. I simply love the contact print and that's my only concern with the larger camera...whereas with the smaller/whole plate camera, I would be doing whole plate contacts, maybe occasional enlargement, but also be much more inclined to shoot with 5X7 and 4X5 color film to be scanned and blown up.

    One part of me is like, "come on whole plate, be large enough for contact printing!!!...because you are basically 1/2 the size of the big daddy"....the other part of me is like, "this big bad boy is absolutely beautiful and it feels paper thin for the size and construction...who in their right mind would give this gorgeous piece up????"...But I'm not a person to have multiple cams around. I prefer to select one to work with and use different sized backs if I want to shoot in another...of course, yes, the 4X5 back is a little different on a 9lb cam vs. some of the very light 4X5 cams that are basically 1/3rd in size/weight

    Thanks Sal and others...

  4. #4
    Terence
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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    To me, whole plate is a nice step in between 5x7 and 8x10 for contact printing. The whole plate cam I just got is much lighter than my 8x10 and not much heavier than my 5x7, but also has less movements, extension, etc. than either one. But the contact print size is much nicer than 5x7, to my eye.

  5. #5
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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    2) How similar is the experience of shooting with a 6.5X8.5 camera vs. an 8X10?
    It depends on your particular equipment. I'd say for me it was very similar, because both my cameras and my backpack loaded with working kit were comparable in size and weight for the two formats. I say was, because I've just started working with a whole plate Century with a 240 Germinar-W, which is a very compact and lightweight combination.

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    3) If one is to "primarily" do contact printing, would 6.5X8.5 even be large enough by comparison to the larger sized prints attainable from 8X10 on up?
    That's such a subjective thing. I find 6.5x8.5 to be qualitatively different from 5x7, while 8x10 just feels like an overgrown whole plate that's a bit too large and square. OTOH, the jump from 8x10 to 11x14 is once again a leap into a qualitatively different space, not just in terms of camera handling but visually as well.

    And further to Sal's point, whether whole plate is "big enough" depends too on what you want to do with them - are you making prints to hold in the hand, or to fill a space on the wall?

  6. #6

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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    It depends on your particular equipment. I'd say for me it was very similar, because both my cameras and my backpack loaded with working kit were comparable in size and weight for the two formats. I say was, because I've just started working with a whole plate Century with a 240 Germinar-W, which is a very compact and lightweight combination.



    That's such a subjective thing. I find 6.5x8.5 to be qualitatively different from 5x7, while 8x10 just feels like an overgrown whole plate that's a bit too large and square. OTOH, the jump from 8x10 to 11x14 is once again a leap into a qualitatively different space, not just in terms of camera handling but visually as well.

    And further to Sal's point, whether whole plate is "big enough" depends too on what you want to do with them - are you making prints to hold in the hand, or to fill a space on the wall?

    These are all very good points and questions. What I'd like to achieve are prints that I can both enlarge and hang on the wall. Speaking of contact printing, which is why I prefer the whole plate and larger formats (though many feel 5X7 is a great size)...what are more "ideal" looking prints? In other words, you do not like the look of the 8X10 due to its more squarish nature. By that, would you consider an 11X14 or even a 8.5X11.5 or even 9X12 to be more to your liking...more visually appealing?

    I wish I had all these sizes and more in front of me to see what seems to just do it for me.

  7. #7
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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    These are all very good points and questions. What I'd like to achieve are prints that I can both enlarge and hang on the wall. Speaking of contact printing, which is why I prefer the whole plate and larger formats (though many feel 5X7 is a great size)...what are more "ideal" looking prints? In other words, you do not like the look of the 8X10 due to its more squarish nature. By that, would you consider an 11X14 or even a 8.5X11.5 or even 9X12 to be more to your liking...more visually appealing?

    I wish I had all these sizes and more in front of me to see what seems to just do it for me.
    As I've said before, if I had my druthers the formats that survived in commercial use would have been not 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10, but 3.25x4.25, 6.5x8.5 and 7x11.

    My experience with 11x14 is very limited to date. I expect that I'll like it more than 8x10, but the proof will be in the doing. The choice of 11x14 as my largest format was in part due to logistical constraints - I might have wanted to try 12x20 instead, but that's more than I can handle either in the field or in the darkroom for now. And in any case I'm fairly nutty about subtleties of optical character, and 11x14 is the largest format I can cover with my favorite lenses. So the Platonic perfection of a format isn't everything.

  8. #8
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    I wish I had all these sizes and more in front of me to see what seems to just do it for me.
    I do have "all these sizes", and more...

    For me at least the narrower aspect ratio of "the metric" sizes are closer to what I like.
    I use 5x7" (or 13x18cm - close enough to be considered the same for this purpose) for both contact prints and enlargements. Larger than that, and the negative won't fit in my enlarger. A bigger enlarger won't fit in my house.

    I rarely make prints larger than 24x30cm (about 9.5x12"), so that is the largest negative size that makes sense to me.

    I also use an 8x10" camera, but mostly with 18x24cm film. Aspect ratio again.

    Same with 4x5" - most of the B&W film I use is 9x12cm. Colour is 4x5", but that's only due to availability.

    I have a whole-plate back for the 8x10", and reducing inserts for various plate holders to whole (and half) plate. I doubt I'll ever use them, as the 6.5x9 - 9x12 - 13x18 - 18x24 - 24x30 gives me sufficient variation in negative size.

    I also have a 30x40cm camera. Compared to the 24x30 it's a boat anchor, and not something I would even consider carrying for any distance at all. And the film size is larger than 99% of the prints I make, so why bother?

  9. #9
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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    Quote Originally Posted by audioexcels View Post
    I wish I had all these sizes and more in front of me to see what seems to just do it for me.
    One last point - I've done experiments with cutting out pieces of paper in different formats/sizes to see what they "feel" like, but found that the only way to really understand a format is to try making negatives and prints with it.

  10. #10

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    Re: Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

    I second Oren's recommendation. For example, I made whole plate marks on my 8x10 GG and then asked the question, "Do I want to deal with custom-sized film and custom-sized filmholders ($$$ unless you can find good used ones) to get rid of the difference in size and weight?" To me the answer was no. Basically the choice came down to cropping the negative before the exposure (whole plate cameras and adapter backs on 8x10) versus "cropping" the negative/print after development. After looking at the difference in sizes between whole plate and 8x10, the answer was obvious for me. Save the expense and bother and cut down the 8x10 prints.

    If you're really into the whole plate format, money is not an issue (for new equipment), AND know you're SURE don't want to shoot 8x10, then a whole plate camera makes sense. Otherwise, just mark the 8x10 GG and crop the prints to whole plate size.

    Steve

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