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Thread: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

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  1. #1

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    Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    If you have thought about making digital negatives for contact printing with silver gelatin papers you might be interested in the following information from Jon Cone.

    http://www.piezography.com/PiezoPres...ital-negative/

    Although I don't plan to contact silver gelatin I am pretty excited by Jon's work with the K7selenium set for digital negatives as it also offers a lot of possibilities for alternative printing with an all gray ink set, which in theory should give better results than a color ink set.

    Sandy King
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  2. #2
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    Yes, I have been following this. It looks like it has allot of potential.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  3. #3

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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    Sandy, I've been watching this with interest but I don't know what the selenium designation means. Does the ink contain elemental selenium in some quantity or a selenium compound that metamorphoses into something else on contact with the paper? Why would the all gray selenium set be much different in aspect to an all carbon set; particle size, shape, spectral absorbance?

    My concern would be the poison hazard from using elemental selenium in a powder form on print paper, especially if the selenium is of close to nanoparticle size.

    Perhaps Jon will elucidate on this here.

    Nate Potter, Austin TX.

  4. #4

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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    I saw that too but I am wary of the marketing speak. He strikes me as an ink salesman first.

  5. #5

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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    Quote Originally Posted by mdm View Post
    I saw that too but I am wary of the marketing speak. He strikes me as an ink salesman first.
    ROFL.

    I'm a printmaker first.

  6. #6

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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    Quote Originally Posted by joncone@cone-editions.com View Post
    ROFL.

    I'm a printmaker first.
    May I have a discount then?

    (Its OK, I also make colour prints on my printer) I do feel that commercial interests often take the front seat in all sorts of places, including the B&S forum, APUG and Mr Cones blog, which is why this forum has a little more credibility for me. I am shure your system works very nicely and I may use it myself one day, when we know more about the results it produces.

  7. #7

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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    Also, will your profiles be machine readable only or can they be read and altered as a text file or with the QTR curve creation tool? If not, then you are an ink salesman. If you will allow others to improve on your work and alter it (without commercial gain) or learn from it then you may be a printmaker, in my eyes anyway.

    Your inkset could be used by many people with widely variable requirements, are your profiles suitable for all print processes out of the box?

  8. #8

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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    Quote Originally Posted by mdm View Post
    Also, will your profiles be machine readable only or can they be read and altered as a text file or with the QTR curve creation tool? If not, then you are an ink salesman. If you will allow others to improve on your work and alter it (without commercial gain) or learn from it then you may be a printmaker, in my eyes anyway.

    Your inkset could be used by many people with widely variable requirements, are your profiles suitable for all print processes out of the box?
    David,

    Credibility is important on a forum. It takes the shape of knowledge. Certainly this is a very knowledgeable forum.

    But, I can't tell if you are actually being serious or being humorous with me.

    Yes, the 'profiles' can be read and altered as a text file. Someone is developing an application that alters my profiles and re-linearizes them to his own desired Gamma response. It's a pretty cool idea. Whether he will commercialize on it or not is not in my control. I just put the stuff out there and let people do with it what they may.

    But, I don't think that sharing intellectual property is what makes you a printmaker. I believe it's printmaking that makes the printmaker. And further, it's the evidence of that printmaking that makes the printmaker. I believe it's recognizable in a universal way by one's printmaking - what constitutes being a printmaker or not.


    Yes to your second question, with the caveat that the alt process must be sensitive to density.

    You can read about the three different digital neg processes I designed by clicking here: Digital Negatives on Piezography Blog I think if you read from the back to the front you will get a better understanding of how "profiles" (called Curves in QTR) function - and how they are being used differently in a conceptual manner to arrive at the same conclusion. All three processes are significantly different from one another.

    Then, if you want to see how curves are designed in more depth, please click here: Piezography QTR Curves, and you should read from the back to the front.


    All of my profiles have been provided free since 2005 when I moved away from proprietary formats, etc

    The one thing I sell is ink, which you know that already!

    Please, let me know if you have any questions on or off the list.

    Best regards,

    Jon

  9. #9

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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    Quote Originally Posted by mdm View Post
    I saw that too but I am wary of the marketing speak. He strikes me as an ink salesman first.
    Jon is indeed a promoter of his products but he also is a contributor to the greater photographic community and hails from a traditional printing background.

    I think you are being a bit too critical and cynical.

    I applaud Jon's effort though I don't fully understand it - yet!

  10. #10
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Digital Negatives with PDN+Piezography K7

    I have been making digital negatives using my lambda laser printer . The film I have been using is Rollie ISO 25 and the negs were processed in HC110 in rather large trays.
    To date I am completely satisfied that this method works for alt prints and silver prints.
    In fact I am producing a lith show using the larger lambda negs in contact with the paper.
    Input was Cannon Mark 3, output is Ilford Warmtone silver paper in Lith Chemicals.
    The resolution is incredible and even looking with a loupe we are seeing no issues.

    The calibration process is easy as the Lambda calibrates 21 step wedge before I am good to go.
    Right now I am outputting film and testing about 6 Alternative processes and am not using a method of adjusting the curve shape of the file to the final output, I am doing this now by eye and seeing the problems **one neg does not fit all process** but we are at a second stage where I am sending over a master file with curve adjustment that I believe will get us closer.

    In May I have the luxury of having Sandy King and Ron Reeder in the same room and I will then see if these guys can look at what I am doing and maybe they will have some adjustment curve suggestions that I can apply.

    I am very interested in Mr Cones work , because I suspect that he is reaching into areas I never would have the ability to work with and understand, I am finding that I will be limited to probably 20 inch rolls or 24 inch rolls of Ilford Ortho 25 Silver Film.
    But I have the need to make bigger negs and the Piezography K7 maybe exactly what I am looking for to make larger negs.

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