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Thread: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

  1. #41

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
    Look guys, I think we can put this to rest. Anecdotally, I've been through every sort of scanner at every sort of airport in every sort of hitthole third-world country, and have never ever ever never ever never had any fogging problems (we're talking about the scanner that is used on carry-ons and not the scanners used on checked baggage.) In fact I am not aware of a single post by anyone on any photo forum which has made a believable case that the airport scanner fogged their film. Lets just put this to rest.
    That's just ridiculous logic: you've never experienced it and you don't believe anyone else who says that have experienced it, ergo, it must be false.

  2. #42

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Not scientifically proven false, but close enough. Exactly how many times would i have to haul my film through airport scanners with no fogging, and how many more similar threads must read to conclude that it is in all reasonable probability false?

  3. #43

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
    Not scientifically proven false, but close enough. Exactly how many times would i have to haul my film through airport scanners with no fogging, and how many more similar threads must read to conclude that it is in all reasonable probability false?
    How many times do you have to buy lottery tickets and not win to prove definitively that no one wins?

    Have you ever had the same situation as me happen to you? Where the guy was jogging the image back and forth for 10 minutes? Or did all your film go through in a half second like the 500 other times mine has with no problems in my life?

    I think you get my point. I'm not saying it happens all the time. I am positing that under this specific circumstance, it *might* have happened.

    There is a very scientific way of determining the answer to this, but it would involve the cooperation of people good at conducting scientific experiments and the TSA.

    Or, maybe the Myth Busters show will do it for us one day... that would be entertaining.

  4. #44
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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Kodak's information is out of date for modern carry on baggage scanning where all new machines have been film safe for yeras now. As someone who travels extensively with film I've never had a problem and my films get scanned many multiples of times. Sometimes more than 20.

    Ian

  5. #45

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    I always sell my film in the classifieds after the first fifty scans.

  6. #46

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Quote Originally Posted by John NYC View Post
    How many times do you have to buy lottery tickets and not win to prove definitively that no one wins?

    Have you ever had the same situation as me happen to you? Where the guy was jogging the image back and forth for 10 minutes? Or did all your film go through in a half second like the 500 other times mine has with no problems in my life?

    I think you get my point. I'm not saying it happens all the time. I am positing that under this specific circumstance, it *might* have happened.

    There is a very scientific way of determining the answer to this, but it would involve the cooperation of people good at conducting scientific experiments and the TSA.

    Or, maybe the Myth Busters show will do it for us one day... that would be entertaining.
    Your defensive logic is wrong. Unlike lottery the results of scanning are scientifically predictable.
    Regarding "jogging" the image for 10 minutes you forgot to understand the post n. 33.
    Re your "very scientific way of determining the answer" you forget that nobody will bother to redo tests because of your nonsensical logic - however much it would please your ego.
    You're basically insisting on spreading a BS theory.

  7. #47
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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Quote Originally Posted by John NYC View Post
    Kodak seems to disagree with you, but whatever.

    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...7&postcount=27

    I think I pointed out quite clearly with the emphasis in my post that I cannot be certain this is what caused it, but the banding is curved and across some of the negs but not all on the roll. It really does look like what is on the Kodak site at the very bottom of the page, but very minor in comparison. None of the other rolls from my same purchase batch have had this. Same lab that delivers almost perfect negs every time.
    That Kodak report clearly states that it applies only to the scanners used for checked bags, not the scanners used in the security line. They even put "checked" in boldface every time it appeared. The units they mention are not used for security-line screening. Don't put film in your checked bag--carry it with you. Here is what Kodak actually wrote in that 2003 notice:

    Airport Baggage Scanning Equipment Can Jeopardize Your Unprocessed Film

    Because your pictures are important to you, this information is presented as an alert to travelers carrying unprocessed film. New FAA-certified (Federal Aviation Administration) explosive detection systems are being used in U.S. airports to scan (x-ray) checked baggage. This stronger scanning equipment is also being used in many non-US airports. The new equipment will fog any unprocessed film that passes through the scanner.
    Rick "who can read" Denney

  8. #48

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Quote Originally Posted by rdenney View Post
    That Kodak report clearly states that it applies only to the scanners used for checked bags, not the scanners used in the security line. (snip) Rick "who can read" Denney
    I can read too, but should have been more specific about what exact research report I was referring to before assumptions were made. Rick is correct... that Kodak report is specific to CT-based scanners for checked baggage. I was referring to the I3A report on Rapiscan scanners for carry-on baggage. The I3A report isn't real easy to access but it is available and is both scientific and conducted by an authoritative scientific collaborative organization using proper scientific method. Some have criticised it based on age of findings, but nobody has yet provided any convincing conclusion based on either scientific or engineering basis that the results are still not valid. I suspect (yes, suspect) that the newer equipment and techniques may actually pose less risk than that used for the I3A study based on technology improvements and general industry sensitivity to the film fogging issue.

  9. #49

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    http://www.i3a.org/technologies/advocacy/itip-2/

    The report is free.

    Peace, out.

  10. #50

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    Re: Airport Scanners - the age old question (finally somewhat settled)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    I always sell my film in the classifieds after the first fifty scans.
    I bought some damaged film, but not from you. I look forward to winning the photography contest in the county fair with my cool-looking swirly images!

    When you sell, Frank, make sure you mention that it is "art film" and worth lots of money.

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