Kodak Financial Woes Deepen: Film Future?

[engl]

I have always been puzzled about advertising. Why isn't there any advertising done to extol the virtues of using film?? If you want to move a product, it has to be advertised. However, film companies have been letting this concept sit on the floor. How can you have a Kodak moment without Kodak film? Why doesn't Ilford play up its history starting with the Autochrome? What would our history have been like without film? Sure, a painting of the Hindenburg crashing would be dramatic, but would it be as dramatic as the actual photographs?

The "but they don't care" argument doesn't work with me. We use information to prick someone's conscience. Milton Rogovin used portraits to provoke social change. W. Eugene Smith took a physical beating for photographing industrial waste in Japan. So why don't the film companies go and prick the consumer's conscience? It's like they've lain down and died.

What would they say? For the needs of the vast majority of people, film is terrible. Everyone over 30 knows what film is like and do not want to go back. They all gave up film in a time when it was easily accessible, cheap and development was everywhere. That has changed since then, and digital has improved greatly.

As for history, the Model T Ford played an important role as well. Spending hundreds of millions on advertisements still would not sell more than a handful of a re-issue.

[Marko]

But I think it's asinine to claim Kodak is giving up on film at this point, and that the solution is to switch to a lessor brand, especially if you live in the USA. I live in Rochester, I see what happens when you buy off-shore junk and our local factories close. Americans have done it to themselves and we're stupid to have done it. But at the very least, we could at least buy some products made in our own country.

It's essentially the same question as whether Chrysler and (to a bit lesser extent) the other two of the Big Three were forced into bankruptcy because Americans are increasingly buying Toyotas and other import cars or whether Americans were driven over to foreign brands by Chrysler et al producing junk cars...

What car are you driving, Frank?

[Brian C. Miller]

But the Ford Model T truck was superceded by other versions of trucks. The current trucks still have four wheels, an internal combustion engine, and decent seating and hauling. The Model T has more in common with an F150 than a Leica II does with a Leica M8.

Now, if the F150 had four electric hub-motors and charged up in an hour for a day's worth of driving, that would be a similar advancement, and a similar economical effect. Oil companies would be going bankrupt, etc. There would be people griping about the demise of gasoline, and how the rumble of a V8 is so cool.

But gasoline engines really suck. And the equivalent electric vehicle doesn't really perform as well as a gasoline vehicle, and it's so much more expensive. But of course if you don't care about the performance, then you can get something that's within your budget.

So I suppose that imaging going electric is akin to the transportation industry going electric.

[engl]

But the Ford Model T truck was superceded by other versions of trucks. The current trucks still have four wheels, an internal combustion engine, and decent seating and hauling. The Model T has more in common with an F150 than a Leica II does with a Leica M8.

Now, if the F150 had four electric hub-motors and charged up in an hour for a day's worth of driving, that would be a similar advancement, and a similar economical effect. Oil companies would be going bankrupt, etc. There would be people griping about the demise of gasoline, and how the rumble of a V8 is so cool.

But gasoline engines really suck. And the equivalent electric vehicle doesn't really perform as well as a gasoline vehicle, and it's so much more expensive. But of course if you don't care about the performance, then you can get something that's within your budget.

So I suppose that imaging going electric is akin to the transportation industry going electric.

Yes, for an enthusiast, a Leica II is quite different from an M8. For the vast majority of people, they both do exactly the same thing except the Leica II is a headache to use. Need to buy and bring film, no instant preview, slower in use, need to pay for developing, need to wait for development and prints, can't instantly share pictures, can't change ISO. In the end, crappy pictures of the kids at Disney Land is still crappy pictures of kids at Disney Land.

The technical details, whether the picture was made using film or digital, is not interesting. Neither is it interesting if the car runs on electricity or gasoline. They are both cars that get you places, but the cost is different, and one has problems with range, recharge spots and recharge times. Digital photography on the other hand does not really have any downsides for the average photographer, so I don't think transportation going electric is similar to how photography went digital.

[Marko]

Brian,

Much as I would hate to disrupt yet another promising film vs. digital revelry , that's not what my comparison was about at all.

I was comparing Kodak films with foreign made films...

More specifically, I think that Kodak is on the fast track of ceasing film production, sooner much more likely than later, and that their decision to do so has next to nothing to do with my decision to keep buying Ilford.

My buying decision, on the other hand, has a lot to do with Kodak's strategic orientation, at least as much so as does Ilford's.

Marko

[Curt]

Kodak should call Donald Trump for suggestions, they obviously can't make any decisions on their own. Any business I've ever worked for would Sh*t can an employee who made decisions like Kodak has... except on and that's the US Government, military division. No one and I mean no one organization can be so tight as*sed as the military and yet spend and waste so much.

I read that we'd never see a car get 40 miles per gallon in the US, guess what, Hyundai and others are doing just that. They could have done it decades ago, who kept them making cars hooked to the pump?

[Brian C. Miller]

Brian,

Much as I would hate to disrupt yet another promising film vs. digital revelry , that's not what my comparison was about at all.

I was comparing Kodak films with foreign made films...

Actually, I hadn't paid any attention to your post!

It's always difficult to efficiently trim a company down. I personally like Kodak films, but the films that are most important to me have been discontinued. I can't get Techpan or HIE. I have to use foreign films, and put up with all of those subtitles. And if it isn't subtitles, then it's a big gaping emulsion defect. OK, so just one sheet out of 20 Efke IR. Still, I wasn't happy to see it, but boy was it big.

Fuji Acros has replaced Techpan. I don't like Tmax's grain. Yes, I do have at least three boxes of Tmax in the fridge.
Efki IR has replaced HIE and HIR. Nothing truly replaces Kodak's fabulous infrared films, but I continue on with what's available.

My color film is still Kodak, though. But realistically, am I using enough to sway Kodak to stay the course with film? Ummm, no. I think that I'd have to be moving through at least 50 sheets per day to be significant.

I don't exactly know if Kodak is trying to ditch film. I've seen a few sales statistics, and the volume appears to be significant to me. Whether it's significant to Kodak, heck if I know. I'm sure they have some kind of a plan, but heck if I know what it is. They are revamping their color lines, and from what I've seen of their movie film, I'd like to see more of that technology come over to where I can use it.

[eddie]

What car are you driving, Frank?

funny. honda was voted best american made car! go figure. i guess they do a lot of the work here. putting them together and all......

i think frank drives a ford made volvo.....but lets ask frank to be sure.

i agree with frank that the problem with the USA right now is that everyone wants it as cheap as possible at all costs. and those costs are their jobs. hindsight shows americans to be pretty shortsighted.

[Bob Salomon]

funny. honda was voted best american made car! go figure. i guess they do a lot of the work here. putting them together and all......

i think frank drives a ford made volvo.....but lets ask frank to be sure.

i agree with frank that the problem with the USA right now is that everyone wants it as cheap as possible at all costs. and those costs are their jobs. hindsight shows americans to be pretty shortsighted.

In 1999, Volvo sold its car division Volvo Cars to Ford Motor Company for $6.45 billion. The Volvo trademark was shared between Volvo AB, where it is used on heavy vehicles, and the unit of Ford, where it was used on cars. In 2008, Ford decided to sell its interest in Volvo Cars; in 2010, Ford sold the brand to the parent of Chinese motor manufacturer Geely Automobile for $1.8 billion.

Not part of Ford!

[Frank Petronio]

Yep got a Chinese Volvo and Chinese-made kid. Got the best of the bargain though!

And while we should be supporting, not dissing Kodak, like the American car companies, they made a series of bad decisions while saddled with an out-of-date business model, huge overhead, etc.

It's hard. I try not to buy anything from WalMart or the other big box stores. But having driven so many crappy American cars, it is really hard to not buy foreign.