dithering on DN

[John MacManus]

The dither is visible in bright areas ( sky, white water) from several inches without a loupe and is really distracting.

Sounds awful. I have only used Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP Transparency Film with silver printing. I have used the PDN color ink process and more recently the Ware process using black inks to make my diginegs, and I see no dither in highlights even at "several inches". Only with a loupe. The Ultra OHP may prevent ink dot spreading better than your substrate, and so give a less noticeable dither. Or, maybe your adjustment curve needs a tweak in the highlight area?

Don't give up on diginegs for silver, it is possible. I'd hate to be without the benefits of diginegs, only have to burn/dodge once ... best wishes ... J

[Colin Graham]

If you haven't tried it already Pictorico white film is supposedly better for printing digital negatives for silver contact/non-UV printing. The white base diffuses the dither..or so goes the sales pitch. I bought some several years ago to try, but haven't gotten around to testing it yet.

[Richard M. Coda]

No dither at all with a silver LVT neg... even WITH a loupe!

[Colin Graham]

You own an LVT film recorder? Lucky you.

[Richard M. Coda]

You own an LVT film recorder? Lucky you.

I do not. I pay for the service which, IMHO, is superior to inkjet negatives.

[Colin Graham]

Great advice I am sure. And while I will have to do a search for LVT to learn what it is, my guess is that at this time my images are not quite good enough to have this done, assuming that I could afford it in the first place. Sounds pricey lol.

LVT output is undoubtedly excellent, but it sounded like the OP might have been looking for some interim options.

Coops, I'd be happy to send along a few sheets if you want to test it.

[coops]

Very kind of you Colin, and thanks for the input. I will order a pack and give it a try. Cheers

[bsimison]

If you haven't tried it already Pictorico white film is supposedly better for printing digital negatives for silver contact/non-UV printing. The white base diffuses the dither..or so goes the sales pitch. I bought some several years ago to try, but haven't gotten around to testing it yet.

I, too, got a lot of noticeable dither with digital negatives on silver. I even tried the Pictorico White Film when someone suggested that the white base will diffuse the dither. It sure does, but it also diffuses the image sharpness.

For those who aren't getting dither on diginegs from an Epson on silver: are you using matte black inks on the Pictorico?

[sanking]

For those who aren't getting dither on diginegs from an Epson on silver: are you using matte black inks on the Pictorico?

I don't make prints on silver with digital negatives but I do make carbon transfer papers from digital negatives on fixed out glossy silver papers and they don't show any dither pattern, even when you look at them with a loupe. Also, I don't see any dither pattern on the negative either so I am pretty sure I could also print silver with no dither pattern.

My printer is an Epson 3800, with PK selected.

Making top quality digital negatives takes a fair amount of skill in selecting a combination of inks that produce the needed blocking for your process and give good grain and no dither pattern, and in creating a good curve to linearize the process.

A few years ago Ron Reeder, of QTR fame, attended one of my carbon transfer workshops at the Formulary in Montana. At the time David Vestal and Al Weber were teaching a class on silver printing. Ron and I were interested to see how one of his QTR profiles would print in silver so he printed a step wedge and had one of the silver students print it in silver with a VC process. It was absolutely grainless and had zero dither pattern so I know for a fact certain that it is possible to make digital negatives that will print in silver with very fine grain and no dither pattern.

Sandy King

[bsimison]

A few years ago Ron Reeder, of QTR fame, attended one of my carbon transfer workshops at the Formulary in Montana. At the time David Vestal and Al Weber were teaching a class on silver printing. Ron and I were interested to see how one of his QTR profiles would print in silver so he printed a step wedge and had one of the silver students print it in silver with a VC process. It was absolutely grainless and had zero dither pattern so I know for a fact certain that it is possible to make digital negatives that will print in silver with very fine grain and no dither pattern.

Was this after he posted his updated guide to creating diginegs on the 3800 back in 2008? Because in this post at dpug he admits that even he can see digital grain in the smooth areas of his silver prints.

I'm not trying to challenge your experience, just making sure I've covered all my bases. I've done both the QTR and Epson ABW workflows and have tweaked out a working process for printing Palladium, but have never created a digital neg for silver that satisfied me.

Thanks,
Brett