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Thread: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

  1. #111

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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Well it's pretty darn obvious you haven't been around the mtns or woods much. Point A to B via GPS is no substitute for knowing the lay of the land.
    I didn't suggest that it is.
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  2. #112
    C. D. Keth's Avatar
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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    The accident rate to hikers in the high Sierra has actually gone up since those things got popular.
    In this thread we completely agree. That is an unfortunate fact. I think it's a side effect of GPS being available, that it inspires false confidence in people to go out in the backcountry who have no business going there without some real skill building first. The people who know what they're doing still use GPS, they just also use maps, a compass, and knowledge.

  3. #113
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Yeah, they bring along an expensive GPS but not a raincoat or sweater! I've had way too
    many personal trips in the mtns ruined by having to walk out someone unprepared. I Autimn esp I generally carry a spare parka or coat just for such inevitable instances. It
    will be 75 degrees under a blue sky. Someone will be dayhiking five miles from the road
    wearing shorts and a T-shirt. Then within fifteen minutes the sky will turn black and it will
    start snowing. Summer can be just as dicey sometimes. Had a backcountry ranger last yr
    tell me how, even though the hiker had a GPS beacon, by the time the chopper got to them they were already dead from hypothermia. Actually, two instances like that in one
    summer, just one part of one Natl Park. And the chopper pilot & crew risked their own lives
    trying to get in there in a storm. Terrible price to pay for wandering into the hills without
    the basics. Ounce for ounce, a raincoat is worth a million times more than a GPS device.

  4. #114
    (Shrek)
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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Personally, I will not trust my life to a GPS, a phone, or a map & compass. However, the combination of all 3, plus basic hiking skills, plus a minimum of gear, and I'm willing to head out. And I'll usually get some directions and a sense of the area as well, from someone who's been.

  5. #115

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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Ounce for ounce, a raincoat is worth a million times more than a GPS device.
    Why do you keep taking an either/or stance? Is there some problem with taking both a raincoat and a GPS unit/beacon?

    Your posts bring to mind James Fenton's reply when Redmond O'Hanlon suggested that they team up for another of O'Hanlon's "adventures": "I wouldn't travel with you to High Wycombe".

    I think that your tone and GPS bashing stance is irresponsible to the point where I wonder whether you are serious.
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  6. #116

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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jody_S View Post
    Personally, I will not trust my life to a GPS, a phone, or a map & compass. However, the combination of all 3, plus basic hiking skills, plus a minimum of gear, and I'm willing to head out. And I'll usually get some directions and a sense of the area as well, from someone who's been.
    Thank you for a well reasoned post to the subject.

  7. #117
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    r.e. - it's not an either/or, but in this part of the world there are plenty of day runner out
    there who go as minimal as possible. They might have a water bottle but not even a fanny
    pack with a lightwt parka. They might be in serious shape, but I've run into them several
    miles from the road where a simple ankle sprain would be potentially fatal. If they slow down significantly at all in a downpour they lose heat fast. The other crowd at risk is just
    toy obsessed without real backcountry experience. Even the backcountry rangers who pull
    off most of the rescue naviage with landmarks rather than GPS. That works well in the mtns where peaks and valleys are visible, not so much in open broad forest. If I continue
    to hike off trail alone in old age like I have often done, I might like one of those GPS rescue
    beacons, but doubt I'll ever need one for actual navigation. There are cases where I just
    wander off into unknown mtns and canyons and at most dig out a map later. Been doing
    it my whole life. Like I said, I'm more likely to get lost in Costco.

  8. #118
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    Your posts bring to mind James Fenton's reply when Redmond O'Hanlon suggested that they team up for another of O'Hanlon's "adventures": "I wouldn't travel with you to High Wycombe".
    No one should travel to High Wycombe with anyone (or on their own).


    Steve.

  9. #119
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    To follow up, r.e. - nobody who grew up in that country had either maps or GPS. I had
    classmates in school who spent entire summers in the wilderness without any of that gear
    they sell in camping stores now. Maybe an oilcloth slicker, a so-so slpg bag and a fishing
    pole. This is just how we lived. I'd disappear into some of the most rugged canyon on the
    continent for days on end when I was just a kid. The Indians did that for centuries. So don't talk to me about experience and who you'd trust or not in the backcountry. I am
    life and death serious. And yes, I am still alive, so must know a little about what I'm talking
    about. I only did about 10,000 miles of backcountry hiking before being officially an adult!
    Not an exaggeration.

  10. #120

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    Re: LF hikers ― is “Map & Compass” a dying art?

    Drew, I'm envious of your nephew. There was an interesting kerfuffle a few years back when it was discovered that the Chinese had made a large-scale model of the Aksai Chin, a disputed area near there claimed by both China and India. It's large enough scale that you can see it from space:

    http://googlesightseeing.com/maps?p=...05.950732&z=17

    Used for training tank drivers apparently.


    R.E., my dad's an old school sailing navigator, and we both reckon it would be irresponsible to outfit a yacht without including GPS. Like taking kids on the water without life jackets: people do it, but it's a long way from best practice. The RN still teaches dead reckoning and jury-rigging sextants so they won't get lost if all power fails, or there's a EMP. Ships out of port still routinely take a noonday sight as a reality check.

    The difference with hiking gear is that a GPS can be a significant part of the total outfitting cost. I would recommend people get one, but other things come first, like good boots, a well-fitted rucksack, and traditional navigation gear. The times I have used one, having an accurate altimeter which does not drift with the weather has been the biggest boost. Not usually a problem at sea.

    OBfoto: A lovely new book of Scottish aerial photography:

    http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/publ...andslandscapes

    Not likely to please the Grand Nature crowd, but excellent for those who like to look at landscapes as palimpsests, and are not blinkered by all that No Hand Of Man nonsense. I mention it here, because one of the images shows beautifully why you need a pair of bearings to get off the summit without falling down the north face or being avalanched down the south side gulleys.

    http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/details/1227962/

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