I've never met Bob or communicated with him, but I do greatly value his contributions to this group. Also, from reading his posts, I've never felt like I was being "sold" the brands he represents. The comment about "attitude" towards "the little people" is unfair. I get the feeling from reading other threads that he bends over backwards to make people/customers happy.
Thanks for the contributions,
Bob, this is not a forum for personal issues, my comments were generalized for the benefit of the forum... I offered many times in the past for a truce to personal issues, but you refuse, and I think that is unfair to the forum...your posts of false information about people constantly cause people like me to defend my character... it's so unnecessary.
As you have done since we started comm., you distort the truth to suit your position, and frankly that gets frustrating and demeaning after awhile! Although I have explained these things to you in detail off line, you continue to post these false accusations in this forum. This is why, when I look back in the old logs in this forum, long before I began participating, I find one common theme, you have had repeated personal wars with many posters throughout the years... I never saw this occur with any other users of this forum... All these wars were always betwen you and another poster, never between other posters... Maybe you should go back and refresh your memeory, then possibly you will see a pattern here. And while your searching Bob, see if you can find one single personal war I had with any poster, you won't BOB!
"Bill, I jumped down your throat for repeating old trash that was originally posted on April Fools day 1998. It was disputed and proved wrong then"
Bob, did it ever occure to you I never saw that post? Forgive me for not following the forum 365 days per year. Couldn't have you mentioned this posted before and reference the previous post? It was a simple question... had this not been one of your product lines, you would have never jumped down my throat, that was my point! Had I asked if Sinar went Bankrupt, you would have provided a peaceful answer. (assumming you knew) Thats my point of taking off your salesmans hat when on this forum.
"As to supporting you we have more then done that. Look at what was sent you at our expense that was far and above your requests" I did not mention support Bob, I mentioned your attitude towards us, or at least me. So don't switch it around to suit your post. Re read my post!
"Your problem is that you won't accept incorrect statements that you make that are corrected such as your belief in the loupe issue."
Out right lie Bob... I am amazed you can not let this issue die... I addressed this loupe issue to you 3 times, as well as 2 other LF photographers. We performed every test you advised us of, and none of us came up with the results you anticipated, we contacted you, and you told said all 3 of us were wrong? And you are accussing me of not accepting incorrect statements that I make? Re read my posts Bob, I admit being wrong many times, and it does not bother me the least...Even as arrogant as you have been towards me, I still offered apologies and stated I was wrong to you. You need to acquire that personality trait! YOU NEVER OFFERED THIS TO ME OR ANYONE ELSE, INSTEAD ONCE CONFRONTED - YOU START A WRITTEN WAR. Being wrong on this forum is nothing to be ashamed of, this forum has some incredibly well educated and very knowledgeable people in all areas of photography... I feel privlaged gaining knowledge and offering support to help others where ever I can, because so many people have offered me help in areas I had less experience in. It's such a great arrangement, I truly respect the forum, it seems others do also.
"And look at what you call "folklore" because you want't properly investigate it."
The investigation of these topics can clearly be done on this forum. Just as a poster mentioned above... the only reason you take some issues personaly and jump down our throats, is because you are financially connected with these companies. To the last poster, I just want to mention, that in all fairness, I too appreciate Bob's wiliingness to offer help on this forum, he has made some excellent contributions even outside his product line...I am never afraid to give credit, where its due. But these persoanl issues and arrogant resposnes only arise when it relates to the product lines he represents, that was my point.
"You happen to have a very knowlegable large format dealer in your town. perhaps you should spend some time with Wayne their and see what the answers to many of your questions are."
Thank you Bob, for telling me how best to handle my photography issues. I have been quite content using this forum, thank you. I also could direct you to some places for help, but that's not the purpose of this forum Bob, so I won't respond.
I apologize to everyone for this "non photography talk" It is very unlike me to enter in personal issues with anyone like I have here. However, unlike the real world, when some says something to you that is false or arrogant, its easy for one to dismiss it. But in a public forum where everone can read false accusations about me, I unfortunatley feel the need to defend myself. I appreciate this forum for the purpose it serves. But like many before me, and probably many after me, it seems you will not cease this type of posting? I guess for as long as anyone does not agree with your opinions or suggests anything potentially negative about your product lines, you find posting arrogance and lies necesary.
Sorry Bob, I am not a door mat, and will not allow you to post half truths and false statements about me without defending myself. But its obvious, not matter how many times I email you offline about these issues, you will ignore them, and continue this rediclulous public behavoir.
Although I have been warned by many people off line about dealing with you.... "no one ever wins with Bob S", my point is, I don't want to win. I am trying to be the bigger person here Bob, and like I have suggested many times in previous posts, can you once try to bury the ax and stop the personal assaults? I don't want these unproductive posts to continue and clog up the forum... do you? For once I would like to see you address that question, but if history repeasts itself, you will ignore it. I am always available off line of by phone to resolve any issues so that we can productive from here on.. My apologies to everyone on the forum...
Bill, you have a wealth of anonymous sources. Why not name some?
Yeah Bob, I am going to drag innocent people into this for your amusement, right. If you want a good half dozen sources to start with - just check the last years casualties of your "war" posts. How's that for a start? Anyway, is this really the relevant issue here?
More importantly Bob, as I anticipated, you once again ignored the key question at the end of my post... so I will just assume this has been, and will continue to be your mode of operation. Attack anyone, anytime if they question your knowledge or post anything remotely negative about your product line. OK, at least you make yourself clear... Lets end this... I will continue to defend my self against any false accusations you post about me! Thanks for being a gentleman about resolving this situation????
The more two people fight, the more they become alike. (Confucius) Please take your diagreements off-line.
Niel, as I mentioned, I have moved this offline many times with Bob, but he continues to post false accusations about me in public forums. I unfortunatly feel the need to defend myself. I am sorry if you would react differently. Moving things off line with Bob does not seem to resolve this situation, he still feels compelled to make untrue personal attacks in public forums?
Well,Well, Well, Q.E.D. It looks like I wasn't the only one to quarrel with Bob. I do not want to re-open old wounds but, once and for all, I think someone has an attitude problem here and since the name which keeps on coming up is always the same, wouldn't it be time to ask oneself: "Am I doing anything wrong?". Wisdom would suggest that if many fingers point to a certain direction there might be something to look there! We all have our ways and our idiosyncrasies but , Bob, give us a break and play the gentleman whom, I am sure, you are. We all love Linhof, we might not own one but we are all aware of its enormous merits. We are with you there! Please give your informed answers without sarcasm, this last one travels so bad on the net! No offence, but I got so sick of my quarrel with Bob that I stepped out of this forum, is it worth loosing people to this kind of behaviour? Adults might argue but not in this fashion, it is childish! Everyone is entitled to its opinion, one might rectify what another writes but there is no need to get personal. I mean, Bob, you import Linhof and yes your livelyhood depends on the credibility of this and other companies which you import. I respect that, but, I have been working in my father's vinegar company as well, and yes, sometimes customer's (or would be so) get you somewhere where it hurts (remember it was my family's company for the last 111 years!), however, the perfect sales person reacts with elegance and although might be tempted to strike back keeps professional and makes his or her point without antagonizing the author of the misinformed comment.
Linhof is expensive.
Rolls isn't cheap.
Rolex isn't sold at every street corner.
Mouton Rotschild is a dream.
Some people love this things and can afford them, some others love them and can't afford them. I doesn't matter wether they are or not, value for money or if their price is actually gone down in proportional or real terms. You cannot compare prices of time past with time present because the terms are so revolutionized that it makes a useless exercise even to attempt doing so. I have no quarrel with highly skilled equipement, only a small problem when it comes to overprice products which Linhof only retails under its name after having bought them from an other company. Linhof is not the only one. Many do so and frankly speaking if a company does that (I am not talking of specially selected lenses, I am more in the line of spirit levels, lens boards, Cable releases, loupes........) has only limited range before of being called a cheat. Again, this was meant friendly. Those who might feel hurt, please accept my apology, I didn't mean that. Oh! By the way!To Whoever disconnected my automatic URL at the time of my quarrel with Bob. How childish to do that! I am not hinting that this was you Bob. Whoever did that .........I simply have no words to describe the contempt with which I look at his/her action. Peace,Love and, if possible spend some time making pictures.
Well it can be pretty easy to tell what items Linhof doesn't make. They usually start with the catalog # 02 or 03.
If you feel that items like cable releases are not unique to Linhof then, except for the pro release, you might point out one other company making the same release.
Obviously no manufacturer with as extensive a line as Linhof makes every single item. There are always sub suppliers. But these items are not the camera itself. if you feel that someone else makes a similar accessory that is as well made by all means buy it from them.
As for your computer I am afraid that that is a skill well beyond me. Have you asked your ISP?
Off subject: The problem had nothing to do with my computer. after our little quarrel someone, again I am not implying that this was you Bob, disabled the automatic sending of all the posting to this forum. It is a rather thing to do if you have the e-mail of the person whom you want to be nasty to(obviously anyone does since it appear in any posting), once you have that you only have to fill in the form which is meant for people who are going on holliday and don't want to find a pile of e-mails generated automatically by receiving all the posting to this forum. Someone did it to me twice, I have been complaining about this with Quan-tuan Long and unfortunately there is nothin to do about it at present. Still, it happened! Whoever did it is the most childish person I can imagine and doesn't even have the guts to stand by his opinions.
Accessories come often from various sources, again, overcharging for this things is a matter of poor style, in life and business fair play is paramount
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