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Thread: Vuescan Raw files: DNG or TIFF

  1. #31

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    1,952

    Re: Vuescan Raw files: DNG or TIFF

    Quote Originally Posted by Rider View Post
    So much for moving on D--now you are beginning to look like you're arguing. But what are you arguing exactly? You've already said that you scan RAW, you just don't like the fact that Hamrick gives you two choices of containers? Ok, use the RAW TIFF and be happy. I use the RAW DNG for the reasons already stated, and I am happy. I use LR to look through my DNG files, which it can't do if they were RAW TIFFs. That's not reason enough for you to use DNG--fine, don't use it! It is enough for me, and there is no drawback I'm aware of for using DNG. Occasionally I process the DNG files in LR. Other times, I reprocess the files in VS first in order to (i) apply scratch and dust removal and (ii) apply the IT8 profile. That gives me non-RAW TIFFs, which I can open in LR or Photoshop or anything I want. I am struggling to know what your point is, frankly.
    I 'll state my point to you one more time since you seem to be reading impaired.

    A Vuescan DNG file is not a RAW file which you keep insisting that it is. It is a scene referenced file, that contains RGB data.

    It much more straight forward to scan to a TIFF file and use that in LR/ACR or PS.

    Do you not understand the use of a Vuescan RAW file? Apparently not.

    Read the posts on the Luminous Landscape and you will understand some of the pitfalls of using the Vuescan DNG files. The concept is basically a scam that does not work properly all of the time.

    However it was never my intent to dissuade you from using Vuescan DNG. Just don't insist it is a RAW data file which it is not.


    Don

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    573

    Re: Vuescan Raw files: DNG or TIFF

    Quote Originally Posted by D. Bryant View Post
    I 'll state my point to you one more time since you seem to be reading impaired.

    A Vuescan DNG file is not a RAW file which you keep insisting that it is. It is a scene referenced file, that contains RGB data.

    It much more straight forward to scan to a TIFF file and use that in LR/ACR or PS.

    Do you not understand the use of a Vuescan RAW file? Apparently not.

    Read the posts on the Luminous Landscape and you will understand some of the pitfalls of using the Vuescan DNG files. The concept is basically a scam that does not work properly all of the time.

    However it was never my intent to dissuade you from using Vuescan DNG. Just don't insist it is a RAW data file which it is not.


    Don
    You promised to move on, instead you came back and accused an honest business person of being a scam artist. You must be having a long day; let's cool down, eh?

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Seattle area, WA
    Posts
    862

    Re: Vuescan Raw files: DNG or TIFF

    A Vuescan DNG file is not a RAW file which you keep insisting that it is. It is a scene referenced file, that contains RGB data.
    Ok I did some empirical testing to test your assertion that a DNG file is "scene referenced", which I'm assuming means that the Color balance etc.. you see in the Preview will get written to the DNG file. So here's what I did:
    I scanned a negative with an "Auto Levels" color balance on Preview. Then I scanned it with a radically different Color balance setting like "Flourescent" to make the color balance change obvious. I outputted two DNG files each with the different Color balance setting. Then I took the two DNG files and processed them with "dcraw", a common and respected raw processor to TIFF. The two DNG files, when processed, look exactly the same. Color balance is the same right down to the pixel level where RGB values are basically the same. Therefore it's obvious that the DNG file being written by Vuescan really is "RAW". It's not writing the color balanced RGB value- it's writing the RAW RGB values from the scanner that can then be interpreted later by a RAW processor.

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    573

    Re: Vuescan Raw files: DNG or TIFF

    Thanks domaz. I took a look at the luminous-landscape thread posted above. The poor fellow there managed to have his DNGs mangled somehow by ACR. I wasn't able to replicate what he did, and no one on that forum was able to either. Somehow, his DNG files were overritten by ACR, and shrunk by 33% after they were processed, making them, obviously, not readable by VS any more. It's not clear whether that was the result of user error, a software design glitch or both. This is no cause for alarm, as far as I'm concerned, but it demonstrates once again the importance of having at least one backup of any important files.

  5. #35
    retrogrouchy
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    832

    Re: Vuescan Raw files: DNG or TIFF

    Domaz is correct. DNG files from VueScan are mostly RAW sensor data despite D.Bryant's assertions, as long as you don't have "RAW Save Colour" or whatever option it is selected. If you select that option, then it's *possibly* no longer RAW, though I think the option just saves the settings from the Colour tab in metadata without affecting the samples.

    For those of us on linux, the DNG option is nice because it means we can open files in dcraw/ufraw for a bit more curve adjustment in 16 bits without having to go straight to 8-bit gimp.

    And DNG is just a TIFF anyway, with some different tags (it includes EXIF!) defined. I'm amused by posts above saying it's an Adobe invention and then in the same paragraph, asserting that Adobe programs can't read it properly because they "reverse engineered" the format! It's just a TIFF container.

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