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Thread: f64

  1. #91

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    Re: f64

    What began as a general discussion about DOF has evolved into B&W work flow and biases for maximizing sharpness. With all due respect to those who have acquired nuanced knowledge of how to get an ultimate print, perhaps we could contain ourselves and start a new thread when we have run the train off the track. It is also unfortunate that there has been no discussion or at least referrals/links about/to related issues to the original thread (i.e. hyperfocal focusing and using movements to reduce stopping down to F64).

  2. #92
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: f64

    Lenny - I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you weren't expert in your line of
    processing images, and hope you understand that my sarcasm at times is more just
    conversational spice than any attempt to be rude. I apologize if it sometimes comes across otherwise. One thing I find out from time to time is how such conversations with others help us look at solutions from a little different perspective from our own; and that is a real benefit of forums like this. I sometimes get my big nose into these
    quasi-digital threads, but the interaction helps me translate for some of my friends
    or students who live in more of a digital + darkroom schizophenia than I personally
    do.

  3. #93
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: f64

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Sandy - I only use conventional developers for lab applications and not general shooting, but I've got to agree about D76 having greater acutance at 1:1 than standard; but I wonder if this is just a function of longer development time and the way the grain forms? ...
    As I understand it, it is due to the action of the silver solvent (Sodium sulphite) in the developer -- the solvent has less effect when diluted, thus the grain has more defined edges than with film developed at full strength.

    I use to use Microdol-X at 1:3 with Pan-X -- seemed to give me a nice compromise between fine grain and acutance.

  4. #94

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    Re: f64

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    BTW, you can send me the test film when you like but I will probably not be able to get to it until after February 7 as I am teaching a workshop next week (five straight days) to someone who wants to learn it all, i.e. scanning technique, digital work flow, pt/pd printing and carbon transfer printing.
    Sandy
    Sandy, no worries. I'm not in a hurry. I'm printing the 810's now and want to make sure I can even get the effect I want before I send it. Anything you make better will only add to what we are learning... it may make it better, won't change the behavior of the current test's parameter...

    Tx,

    Lenny
    EigerStudios
    Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing

  5. #95
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: f64

    Vaughn - that seems to make sense. I haven't used Pan-X forever, but it was back in
    the brief D23 era when I was experimenting with high sulfite developers. Now if I want
    something old and oversaturated with sodium sulfite it would be a salad at Denny's.

  6. #96

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    Re: f64

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Lenny - I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you weren't expert in your line of processing images, and hope you understand that my sarcasm at times is more just
    conversational spice than any attempt to be rude. I apologize if it sometimes comes across otherwise.
    Drew,
    Apology accepted.

    I don't pretend to know everything. It's impossible to learn all the aspects of this game. I can guarantee you that Joe Holmes knows more than I do about mapping color spaces. I can also guarantee you that I know more than he does about a 12-color d'vinci system and getting the color right on matte papers like PhotoRag. I'm not saying he couldn't figure it out - he certainly could. But I happen to know he hasn't. I use ErgoSoft's StudioPrint, have for years, and some times when I ask ErgoSoft a question I learn something. Sometimes they say things like - you're the only person we know that's checking this out with our software - let us know how it goes.

    I am also driving a second 12-color printer with StudioPrint using b&w inks. That's 6 warm, 6 black and all 12 for neutral. I don't think there is anyone else out there mixing 12 channels of b&w, split toning them when necessary, etc., except for maybe Jon Cone... If there is, I'd love to know them and trade what we've found out.

    Now all of this doesn't help me making a carbon print. I think I've made one or two in my life... But I'm not pretending to be an expert on carbon prints.

    I am analyzing another neg I shot at f64. It's amazingly sharp on my monitor. I'll grant you that my example on the web may not have been useful enough. However, in general I think we all have to be clear when responding whether or not the person is actually asking a question, or asking for help, and finally, what their level of experience is....

    Lenny

  7. #97
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: f64

    Lenny, I don't think Joe has worked seriously in black-and-white for decades, though
    there are a few people who approach black-and-white inkjet itself on a color-mapping
    premise, maybe not critically, but at least as a practical workflow. I've outdistanced Joe for many years when it comes to color darkroom technique. But sometimes it's interesting to debate the pros and cons with him, or with the other guru across the Bay, Ctein, who works in both traditional and digital color. So far, none of my own
    proselytes have opted for digital black-and-white, preferring to do that kind of imagery
    the traditional way. Color is a different story, since a serious color darkroom is a far
    more involved commitment. But it's nice to have yet another valuable resource in the
    vicinity, and if good medium-format scanners do again become available, I have a friend or two who might seek your advice. Thanks.

  8. #98
    A.K.A Lucky Bloke ;-)
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    Re: f64

    Sandy,
    Where's the workshop?
    Armando

  9. #99
    joseph
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    Re: f64

    I shouldn't be doing this...


    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Eiger
    I am analyzing another neg I shot at f64. It's amazingly sharp on my monitor. I'll grant you that my example on the web may not have been useful enough. However, in general I think we all have to be clear when responding whether or not the person is actually asking a question, or asking for help, and finally, what their level of experience is....
    I'm pretty confident that remark is directed at myself, and those who commented that the image posted was pretty fuzzy.

    Lenny, you've claimed 300MP resolution for the file you posted-
    then subsequently claimed that resolution was unimportant.

    The terms 'Sharpness' and 'Resolution' have been used interchangeably since this thread segued into a discussion about film and digital processing.*

    When some people challenged your claims about the detail picture you posted,
    you reacted in a childish and rude manner, indulged in personal slur, and requested that the thread be deleted.

    It seems as if actual resolution is no more than a belief system around here,
    and unsubstantiated claims are defended by rubbishing those who choose to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by pdmoylan
    It is also unfortunate that there has been no discussion or at least referrals/links about/to related issues to the original thread (i.e. hyperfocal focusing and using movements to reduce stopping down to F64)
    I did reference a thread on resolution in an earlier post, even those believers who worked out that we were looking at a soft image at 900dpi couldn't accept that an 8x10 scan of an image shot at f/64 could be less than 72MP.

    This whole area is a belief system, and relies on acts of faith, and the rebuttal of the laws of the universe, the casting out of non believers, and the impugning of their experience.

    Other threads on the same subject have descended into personal slurs by the faithful and their followers, and valuable contributors leaving the site, after beating their head against a brick wall for too long.

    As you said at the top of the thread, there has been a lot of shite talked about big lenses and resolution over the years.




    joseph



    * btw, this thread's title is f/64- if a developer can provide enhanced resolution when used with a particular film, isn't that negated if the resolution isn't projected onto the film to begin with? Due to diffraction?

    Sharpness, yes, that can be enhanced, but I think it's quite lazy to confuse sharpness and resolution in a thread purporting to be dealing with shooting at tiny apertures.

    The segue into processing techniques was interesting, if not on topic-
    but the continued rubbishing of those who choose to believe the evidence of their own eyes, rather than counting scanned pixels, is just too much.

  10. #100

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    Re: f64

    Quote Originally Posted by onnect17 View Post
    Sandy,
    Where's the workshop?
    Armando
    Armando,

    This is a one-on-one at my home in Easley, SC.

    However, I am going to be doing a digital negative demo one day, and a carbon transfer demo the next, for the New England Large Format Group in April. Attendance is probably limited to members but you could check with Steve Sherman to make sure. steve@steve-sherman.com

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at Yahoo.
    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...nTransfer/info

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