By the way, one big disadvantage of the Wisner (Ellis take note) is that when using short lenses front shift and swings would not be possible because the struts on the front standard interferes with the base of the rear standard. The situation is actually worse than what may see in the picture shown in the web page of The F-Stops Here
A few more things before I go home and quit posting:
1. The wonderful Darkroom Innovations 4x5 focusing cloth is impossible to use with the Wisner PE because it seriously interferes with the movements. I'm discussing the problem with them, but I doubt there will be a solution. Guess what I did when I got the focusing cloth with the PE and having ZERO experience with LF photography: I strangled my thankfully small neck with the elastic side - go ahead and LAUGH.
2. When using short lenses and having the rear standard right on top of the rear focusing pinion axis, the rear focusing mechanism becomes somewhat rough because of the weight on it. The top-rear focus which has two small knobs on either side is much smoother in this situation. So what do you prefer: (a) two smooth but small knobs, vs. (b) one large, but rougher knob. Personally, I'd use the front focus if I can reach it - the front standard is light and the focusing mechanism is always smooth.
Thanks Carlos! Great photo and excellent schematic. Now i understand: "Top rear focus" is another way of describing a focus drive riding directly on top of the camera bed. The DLC has a similar but simpler, nongeared mechanism as part of t he front and rear standards. These allow you to place the rear standard all the at the front of the camera, or the front standard all the way at the rear of the camera, or both somewhere inbetween as desired or necessary. I cannot tell from your schematic if the focus movements of the beds for the W.P.E. are geared or not, but the twin side-by-side rails for the DLC are extended and retracted via locking gear drives. The nice thing is that the locking mechanism is that it is progressive so you can have them almost locked up stiff and beable to fine tune the focus before you go into the fully locked position.
A confession: A couple of times I have set up to make my shot only to discover t hat I had not locked the standard to the rail. This tends to make me feel very s tupid for not being thorough enough in going down my mental checklist.
As far as limits to the full range of swing motion, any very short focus lens br ings the standards close enough together to limit swings. This is true of just a bout any camera, especially ones that don't utilize recessed wide angle lensboar ds. Also I find that I rarely use large degrees of swing with wide angle lenses. Tilt is a different matter entirely.
Ellis, the top rear focus and regular focus movements of the PE are all geared. I'm not sure if it is only me, but I can't do ZERO front/rear swings and front shift with a 90 mm lens on the PE! This is how serious the problem is. I always thought 90 isn't that wide at all. However, front/rear tilts and rise/fall are all limited only by the bellows and lens. Rob, or other PE users want to confirm that it isn't just my stupidity ooozing out all over the internet again.
I want to get a shot of our new Chemical Engineering building which I anticipate will require a significant amount of shift and some tilt (I might have to rent a 72XL). I intend to rotate the camera to say 15 degrees from horizontal then crop the transparency. Good thing the camera is light, so my head (Bogen 3275 or 410) and Reis H600 with a rock bag on the other side can probably handle it. I am very concerned with how well the cork on the Bogen quick release will handle the rotational forces. Good thing that unlike heavy 35 mm rigs, LF cameras with typical 4x5 lenses are not front-end heavy. So rotation should just tighten the screw.
I made a mistake in the previous post, of course I meant cannot do any swings and shifts.
Carlos your posts are sounding more and more like advice against getting a Wisne r P.E.! i am sure the guys at D.I. will take back your camera and set up with a DLC. I have never run into any of these troubles with mine and I have used lense s as short as a 47mm super angulon (on a recessed Technika board.)
Does Wisner make a recessed board and bag bellows for the P.E?
I might have to retract my previous post concerning the Wisner PE and wide angle lenses. Looking at the static pages for the Deardorff, I figured out that it is possible to use a combination of manual axis tilt and base tilt to move the lensboard back while keeping the front strut parallel to the rear strut on the Wisner PE. This should significantly increase the amount of front swing and shift possible with shorter lenses - I'll try this out tonight. But for the widest lenses with lots of coverage, e.g. 72XL, swinging the camera around on the tripod and cropping the film may still be necessary.
I do not intend to cause another argument on this issue, but these same struts that make it more difficult to apply swings and shifts on the Wisner PE with short lens also make it more rigid. The DLC does not have these struts, so it is less rigid that what some owners like Ben and B. Woods would like, even though the DLC may actually be adequately rigid as Ellis points out. Is the Wisner PE more rigid than the DLC? I don't know, because I've never touched the DLC. But the Wisner PE is very rigid when everything is locked down and I know what rigid means because I've played with a Sinar P.
Ellis, don't get me wrong on this. I've fallen in love with the Wisner PE - it is BEAUTIFUL and the geared movements are in my opinion indispensable for some of the things I do given my level of dexterity! There is just absolutely no way I would return it. The Wisner PE like any camera has its limitations and problems, and I would be doing a dis-service if I only say what's good about it.
Let me see if I can conclude this thread by answering the original question I posted in a direct way.
1. If you want a beautiful camera, need geared movements because you doubt your dexterity, and are patient enough to master the proper sequence of steps in operating the movements, then get the Wisner.
2. If you have big fingers or absolutely need to wear gloves when taking pictures, don't get the PE.
3. If you intend to use shifts and swings a lot with short lenses, don't get the PE - it is definitely possible, but it can be inconvenient.
If issues 2 and 3 don't really apply to you, and issue 1 fits your personality, then I can guarantee that you'd love the camera as much as I do. Otherwise, consider the DLC and Arca F-line Field, both of which I looked at before coming to the decision of buying the Wisner PE.
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