Hi from Salt Lake City & what 4x5 camera for a newbie?

[glogan]

Hi, I'm an 'aspiring' LF photographer. I would like some advice for a first LF camera and related gear.

The reason I have started looking at LF is for landscape photo's I've been taking. I am wanting more depth of detail. Back in a 1990's I was using a 35mm film camera, and on a whim, bought some 25 speed slide film on my way to Denali Natl. Park, which just happened to have very beautiful colors on the fall tundra. At that time, I was a total novice, but that semi-accidental combination of events has left an impression on my mind by the amazing slides I got from that trip. After using 35mm thru. the '90's with very little understanding about photography basics, I got a dSLR (Nikon D80) about 4 years ago, and also some classes, and have been progressively learning and having great fun.

I have now convinced myself that LF will give me the extra depth of detail (beauty) that I'm looking for. I am primarily thinking of wilderness landscapes, using standard or a little wide angle. (hopefully more lenses & subjects with time) Short hikes, but not all day backpack trips (yet). Not studio work. I do have some uncertainty about the very different, slow and methodical approach enforced by LF, one picture at a time, totally manual, etc, but am enthusiastic to give it a try.

I want to be able to print at least 20x30" or more. As an example, I have a landscape panorama of Utah's Delicate Arch taken in 7 frames with my dSLR, stitched together in PS, and printed 12"x48" that I'm quite happy with.


Here are my questions:

What camera and lens?
I think I want a camera that will allow me to 'try it' and not break the bank. I'm not thinking I need lots of features. I would regularly carry it around outside. I will be first trying color landscapes.

From my landscape desire & my reading, it's my current thought to buy a 4x5 Field or Press camera with a standard lens. ie. Cheap and portable. 137mm seems to often be standard with some of those cameras, I don't think I want to go narrower than 150mm. Should I be concerned about color accuracy of the lens if I got an older field or press camera?

I've also seen a couple posts about some of the rail cameras being packable? It would seem that they might be a bit fragile unless you had a sturdy (heavy) case for them.

I would have thought to get 5x7 since both the increased size and the wider aspect ratio seems preferable for my landscape desires. But the availability and lesser prices of 4x5 cameras and film are making me think that a 5x7 will be a 2nd camera if I hang in there with this adventure.

I've seen this recommendation (and a couple similar) that I like, primarily since it appears this would be among the lowest low cost…

If I wanted a 4x5 camera for an urban environment I might look for a decent Crown or Speed Graphic. Something I could use hand held or on a tripod. One that came with a decent Kodak 127mm Ektar lens. The lens approximates 35mm on 35mm film. We all know that the 35mm lens is the darling of street photographers everywhere. You won't have all the movements that a monorail or field camera offers. You will have significantly more "movement" as in portability.

Hmm, accessories?
- a black cloth cover to stick your head under for focusing;
- Multiple double sided film backs;
- Is my dSLR a good enough light meter to get me started?
- Loupe / magnifying glass to help focus. Someone said a pair of reading glasses works? (what power?)
- Tripod - I would try my current tripods first, and decide if they are stable enough, and change if I (probably) need to.
- Shutter Cable release

Less necessary:
- Fuji quickload system or a changing bag?- easier to reload film in the field ?
- A polaroid film back - looks great for a novice to figure out if the picture is going to be in the ballpark - but can I still get film?
- A dSLR back - I've seen on eBay - could help me learn - with instant feedback - about focusing and focusing effects on the movements, but too small for composition? Might reduce the wastage of the first 10-30 shots.


How to develop?
For developing, there are a few labs in my city that advertise processing and scanning LF, and I could have them develop, but if continue the adventure after the first 20 photo's I'm definitely going to want to develop myself in color. There are a couple posts I've seen recommending the "HP Combi 4x5 Sheet Film Developing Tank" as a simple system which it appears that I can get for about $85US. The recommending people are developing B&W though. I'm not sure if it's intended for color. I would be happy to just start with some trays if I could find some directions, and also believed that I could get consistent results. (is that a bad idea?) I have space in my basement that I can allocate to a darkroom as needed.

For printing, I plan on scanning with my personal 1200dpi for examination and quick printing, then use the photo lab's high res. scanner to scan for any photos worth the extra quality. Darkroom printing will have to come at a later time.

So I'm looking for critiques of my thoughts, and advice on choosing a first camera, basic necessary accessories, and how to get started developing. But I would appreciate any other tidbits too. If I can get a 'try it' setup for $200-300, and assume that costs would go up to $500-800+ as I decide that I'm sure about this, those would be okay. But less is always better.

Best Regards & Happy Holidays!
Gary.

[Brian C. Miller]

Welcome, Gary!

LF cameras are actually quite sturdy, but if you want to do landscape work then what you want is one that is easily packable. The field cameras, aka press cameras, fold up into a nice little package. I started with a Graflex Super Graphic, and then years later I bought a Toyo 45AX. Take a look at the for-sale section here and eBay, and you'll get an idea what they go for. My purchasing preference would be either to buy locally, buy through the board here, and as my last option I would buy through eBay. You can equally get a good deal or get screwed.

As for the lens, the usual 135mm is just fine. The press cameras fold up with the lens still mounted in the camera, which makes it really convenient. The Toyo 45CF will fold up with a 150mm Rodenstock, IIRC.

Sully75 has been trying and trying to sell a very lightweight Gowland 4x5 Pocket View. Since Richard just sold one in better condition for less, maybe Sully will come down on the price. Anyways, a good deal for the camera. You'll need a lensboard and lens. Honestly, I don't know of a horrific large format lens manufacturer. Just about any lens will give you stunning results.

Developing B&W yourself is not difficult, but color could cause you a number of dissapointments. The Jobo tank system (now becoming a collector's item) was probably the best for home development. Jobos and associated tanks and accessories are getting difficult to get, so the best thing to do is go with something else. The HP Combiplan tank can be used for color, but something else would be a better idea. There is a rotary processor still being made, but I can't remember the name.

OK, a word about labs. Ask the lab beforehand about how you should bring in the film. One of the forum members got a bad suprise when he sent in the film wrapped in black poly bags, and the labs opened it up in the light, so the images were ruined. Also, one of the options you will have at the labs is they will make contact sheets for you, for maybe $10. A contact sheet is just four 4x5 negatives laid down on a sheet of photo paper, and then exposed to the light. Quite inexpensive, and you can file the contact sheet with the negatives.

You'll definitely need film holders, and a changing bag or a dark room for loading film. A cable release is OK. There are threads about using a DSLR as a light meter. (Me, I use a normal light meter.) You can start with a cheap incident light meter, and then get a spot meter later. The press cameras usually have a little pop-up hood in the back to block the light for focusing. You really don't need a loupe if you can squint good, but a loupe does help. I bought a loupe 10 years after I started LF.

Oh, yeah, the other stuff:
There is no more Polaroid film. The only instant film is Fuji, but you'll need a Polaroid 550 pack back or the Fuji PA-45 pack back. Adorama has it in stock.
If you want to see how the movements work, just watch what happens on the ground glass. Also, Adam's The Camera is a good book.
Hook up with other LF photographers in your area, and see if you can spend some time shooting with someone.
Fuji Quickload or Kodak Readyload film may be still available in small quatities, but you will also need a film holder for them. They also fit in a Polaroid 545 holder.

[eddie]

welcome.

keep an eye out. i just sold a perfectly good working monorail camera here on the forum for $70....so they are out there.

this calumet monorail on e bay maybe something to keep an eye out for. only 40 views. probably will sell for less than $75.

i do not like the combi tank. and it is expensive. i use the "doran" daylight tank. just be sure the film guide is included as you will need it. i have had zero issues with my tanks. i have been using them for years with no problems. never used this one but it looks good.

eddie

[Bob Salomon]

There is an excellent large format dealer in Salt Lake City with lots of experience. Why not go talk to them? Pictureline.

[glogan]

There is an excellent large format dealer in Salt Lake City with lots of experience. Why not go talk to them? Pictureline.

I will. Thanks for the lead!

Gary.

[Vick Vickery]

Ah, Ha!! The Ansel Adams Desease strikes again! Just kidding, Gary! I started out with a Busch Pressman with a 135mm Ektar lens on it and it did just fine, but I'd have to recommend a late Crown Graphic or Super Graphic with Graflock backs for their greater versatility. All are easily portable and can even shoot hand-held if you wish. All have plenty of movement for most landscape work. And, importantly, all are available reasonably from various sources. The Graflock backs make adding back accessories such as roll-film holders a little more convenient, though I used a Calumet slide-in roll holder with my Busch and it worked out fine. The Super and Super Speed Graphics were the last of the Graphic cameras and have a little more movements available than did earlier models; Bob's suggestion about looking at some cameras first before deciding is a good one. Oh, one drawback of the Super Speed Graphic: their standard shutter (top speed 1/1000) is notoriously unreliable.

Oh, almost forgot...welcome to group therapy!

[Brian Ellis]

If you're photographing wilderness landscapes I assume you'll be doing a good bit of backpacking - at least full day hikes and probably overnight. I think a relatively light-weight (roughly 4-6 pound) field camera such as a Tachihara, Chamonix, Shen Hao or any of the many older 4x5 field cameras out there would be better choices than a monorail. You'll pay more than $70 but you'll have a camera better suited IMHO to your apparent needs than a monorail.

A 4x5 camera won't give you any greater depth of field than a 35mm camera. In fact all other things affecting depth of field being equal, it will give you less. What it will do is allow you to use camera movements (tilt and swing) to adjust the plane of focus in some situations (not all by any means) so that things in the scene from near to far are in focus. Which is probably what you have in mind when you talk about increased depth of field. But it's important to understand that this isn't something you can use to your advantage in every situation you'll encounter, it depends on the particular scene you're photographing.

There have been literally hundreds of "what camera should I buy" questions here over the years. If you search using a term like "newbie" you'll find more information than you'll likely want to read.

Good luck, try not to get too hung up over your first camera. Most people who stick with LF don't end up with their first LF camera being the only one they ever buy.