Nude

[Mark Sawyer]

...So I don't find most nudes in art creepy. I find the PC-party line creepy. And I think a lot of photographers concoct rather pained rationalizations to get around what is, in the end, a basic human instinct.

The only thing I disagree with you on, Frank, is specifying it as a human instinct, when it runs universally through the animal kingdom. And I bet we don't really disagree on that...

But I'd stand by my observation that the best work, albeit in my eyes, comes from artist/model relationships that are established to where trust and tension aren't issues anymore. Such situations also allow for a larger body of work forming over a longer periods of time, with more involvement from those on both sides of the camera.

Sally Mann's recent work with her husband deserves special mention, I think. She had a nice quote about working with him...

"And so it was with fire and ice, the studio woodstove too far away from the light to do him any good on a cold winter afternoon, that Larry and I began this work of exploring what it means to grow older, to let the sunshine fall voluptuously on a still-beautiful form, and to spend quiet afternoons together again. No phone, no kids, two fingers of bourbon, the smell of the ether, the two of us—still in love, still at work.”

Me, I'm just trying to figure a way to talk Tinkerbell out of that little green mini-dress...

[Emil Schildt]

The only thing I disagree with you on, Frank, is specifying it as a human instinct, when it runs universally through the animal kingdom. And I bet we don't really disagree on that...

But I'd stand by my observation that the best work, albeit in my eyes, comes from artist/model relationships that are established to where trust and tension aren't issues anymore. Such situations also allow for a larger body of work forming over a longer periods of time, with more involvement from those on both sides of the camera.

Sally Mann's recent work with her husband deserves special mention, I think. She had a nice quote about working with him...

"And so it was with fire and ice, the studio woodstove too far away from the light to do him any good on a cold winter afternoon, that Larry and I began this work of exploring what it means to grow older, to let the sunshine fall voluptuously on a still-beautiful form, and to spend quiet afternoons together again. No phone, no kids, two fingers of bourbon, the smell of the ether, the two of us—still in love, still at work.”

Me, I'm just trying to figure a way to talk Tinkerbell out of that little green mini-dress...

I like your Sally Mann quote.

But I have been working with models - now close friends, but never lovers - for years and the issue with trust/tension isn't there anymore either....

I'd like to think it can be possible to make ones best work, despite a relationship without sex/love/time...

I know I try to...

[Mark Sawyer]

And I do enjoy your nudes, Emil, (in an entirely appropriate way! ). Excellent work!

Perhaps it's a more parochial attitude we have here in the United States that binds and twists us over such things.

[George Kara]

Well the beaver shots are simply little boy fantasies - whether its shot using a large format camera, a cell phone or a bad manga drawing. They are all universally uninteresting and bad. Go over to youporn.com and the work is much graphic, honest and to the point, and better if you looking to gawk.

Perhaps what Frank is discussing is the concept of "naked" versus "nude". Often times Frank shoots staged photos of women "acting naked", which imbues his work with a human tension and edge that is universal. You never know whats gonna show up out of one of his photo-shoots. The concept and action of "artistic nude" is often static, obvious and simply not that visually interesting.

[Leigh]

George,

You'll forgive me if I don't rtecognize you as an acknowledged international authority on art or aesthetics, but...

I didn't get the memo. Sorry.

Passing off your personal opinions as universal truths is much more juvenile than the photo subjects that you criticize, IM[-H]O.

- Leigh

[Mark Sawyer]

Well, we banished religion and politics from the forum. But we kept porn.

Photographers have their values!

[DanK]

George,

I disagree with your statements - both of them.

Dan

[Stephen Lumry]

Moon over Hoodoos. The model was very shy.

[csant]

Reminds me of a lecture I attended about the nude in photography (is it porn or is it art?) and the lecturer pointed out that most "art" nudes are close ups of the torso while most "porn" nudes (Hustler, Penthouse, etc.) shows the model's face as well. His contention was that when the model's face was in the photo, especially looking directly into the camera, it was a more direct turn-on because the viewer was seemingly engaged with another person.

I would draw the line between pornography and art nudes somewhere else - after all, a naked body (with a head, and eyes that look at "you") is not something "pornographic" in itself, is it? You can't call all Greek and Roman sculptures "pornographic" just because they are naked bodies with a face… It is more in the posture of the bodies, the gestures, the message of the photograph… I know photographs that are "simply" portraits - and the model happens to be without clothes. Nothing anywhere close to what I'd classify as pornography.

[Lachlan 717]

Moon over Hoodoos. The model was very shy.

You should take that bum back to the shop where you bought it. It seems to have a big crack in it...