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Thread: Nude

  1. #171

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    Re: Nude

    Mdm is merely a troll and a simpleton. I was moved by the image. It is a tribute to the photographer and young man who posed. It takes a tremendous amount of courage for a young person to face such a disability and attempt to come to terms with it. I kind of think of him as a superhero.

    I also take it as a compliment that someone - no matter how uneducated, would think of my work as brutal.

  2. #172

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    Re: Nude

    David (mdm), make sure you address each person so you know who is who. It sounded like you were attacking Scott, but Scott is only an observer/conversation-er like myself here.

    Peter has a point. However that could be moot, knowing that the image has been published online. It's no longer a personal project, nor is it for the eyes of the two involved. It has taken on greater meaning (as much as to make us aware, and to make us argue).

    +1 to what Paul says also.


    Final anecdote. My series "Don't Change" follows a similar pattern of photographing someone with a serious illness and allowing the person to view themself. Charly's potentially fatal cancer has messed up her life in some respects, but at least she's alive. Anyway, it took months to convince her to undertake the project and agree to some of the shots. There are more shots like nudes that I never put online.

    The punchline is, I told her where they'd end up. I told her I wanted to publish them in as many ways as possible, have them in exhibitions and so on. In two weeks time they'll be in a group show, and one of the images has been used for all the publicity.

    If someone painted her, I'm sure she'd be flattered but a little weirded out.

  3. #173

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    Re: Nude

    Embellishment and interpretation is common and accepted practice in any creative field. I have had my paintings used as a reference for photographic images as well.

    Plagiarism as defined in the 1995 Random House Compact Unabridged Dictionary is the " use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work. "

    Clearly the painting is not a close imitation of the photograph. Photography and painting are also vastly different languages. The pose and unique condition of the subject were the starting point. The color, texture and context are my variation on this profound theme of beauty, acceptance and mortality.

  4. #174

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    Re: Nude

    Quote Originally Posted by George Kara View Post
    Mdm is merely a troll and a simpleton. I was moved by the image. It is a tribute to the photographer and young man who posed. It takes a tremendous amount of courage for a young person to face such a disability and attempt to come to terms with it. I kind of think of him as a superhero.

    I also take it as a compliment that someone - no matter how uneducated, would think of my work as brutal.
    If english was your first language, you would understand that my comment can be taken at least 3 ways:
    -The sitters master piece is brutalised
    -The excelent and courageous photograph has been brutalised by your masterful interpretation
    -Your masterful interpretation has been brutalised
    Your work is not brutal.

    I may be rude and inconsiderate but it cant all be back slapping and high fives. A little dissonance is not only a very creative thing, but also highly entertaining. And in theese situations one learns a great deal about peoples motivation. I have no axe to grind.

    On a forum such as this groupthink is an ever present danger.

    I hope you will post many large format photographs in the years to come and I am shure you have a great deal to give, coming here as a painter. This is the Large Format Photography Forum.

    I hope most of all that bobpin and others, will continue to post truly outstanding work without fear of it being stolen or misused. I am here to learn from them, large format photography is difficult. It is so hard to get a close portrait in focus, to get a complex plant form just so, to produce a print that feels right.

    By the way, the link in your signature is broken for me, scaryink.com does not work.

    Have a happy 2011.
    David

    PS Thanks Ash, gotta love the English.
    David

  5. #175

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    Re: Nude

    Quote Originally Posted by George Kara View Post
    The pose and unique condition of the subject were the starting point.
    Exactly

    The central image in your painting is a mirror image of bobpin's image. No hiding from that. You could have just flipped it in Photoshop and applied some sort of brutalising filter and there is your painting, save for a few indistinct brush strokes here and there.

    I have not changed my opinion.

    Lets say you like to paint nudes, instead of hiring a model or imagining a scene, you just rip off a Man Ray or an Edward Weston or a gandolfi, ustas or a bobpin. Lets say you sell your painting for $$$$$$$$$ to a hedgefund manager, or a pervert at a fleamarket. What does that make you? Lets say you give it to your friend, who sells it on ebay. What does that make you? Lets say you were just having a shot yourself and paint over the canvas, no worries. What if you asked permission first? Would it be given? This is a nude we are talking about. What if you gave it to the photographer or the sitter? Would they destroy it? What if you published your painting on the cover of Vouge? Is that the same as publishing it on a forum such as this, without permission?

    What if I posed a model in exactly the same pose and made a photograph or painting? What if I posed the exact same model exactly as bobpin did and made a photograph, or a painting? Where is the line?

    I still have not changed my opinion? Have you?
    David

  6. #176
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    Re: Nude

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_C View Post
    The issue with copyright is that it's up to the copyright owner to enforce, however they choose. . . .
    And the issue with shoplifting is for the shop owners to resolve, leaving the police free for traffic control and writing tickets.

  7. #177

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    Cool Re: Nude

    David

    Your understanding of the legal and ethical rights surrounding the creative process are thin and brittle. May I suggest you spend ten minutes tapping away to research these issues?. There are countless examples of this discussion. Painters have borrowed or used photographic reference of others for their works since the dawn of photography.

    This spans from JL Gerome through Francis Bacon, Thomas Eakins, Adolf Gottlieb and the list wonderfully expands and continues. In a recent exhibit of Gerome, the curator located many of the original very early photos and placed them next to the oil paintings. It was a fascinating move on the part of the organizers. The original paintings never carried attribution nor was it needed. There are books of the photographic references used by any one particular painter.

    What is clear, is that your eyes need training. Clearly this is an oil painting - photoshop can never replicate the original thing. If you look at the figure, you will see every proportion is different from the photo. This is because it is hand drawn and not from a projection or digital manipulation.

    The figure was inverted to bear a closer relationship to the secondary image which was drawn without reference.

    BTW, I could absolutely use Man-Ray references anytime I want.

    All artists through all mediums beg, borrow, steal and riff off one another. Its called influence and its what people do to one another.

    Using cliches such as "groupthink" are insulting to this particular group. Most of the photographers here are highly skilled mature, and have their own well considered opinions styles and processes. There is little in the way of "cattle mentality."

  8. #178
    Peter
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    Re: Nude

    I followed George's advise and researched this a little bit, and I found references that seem to contradict his position.

    http://painting.about.com/cs/artists...yrightfaq7.htm
    http://painting.about.com/cs/artists...yrightfaq5.htm
    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#113

    If you can provide references that seem to allow copying photographs for a derivative work without getting permission from the copyright owner, it might be helpful.

    Peter

  9. #179

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    Re: Nude

    I'm not getting into this, but I do wonder why photographs from 6x17 cameras are removed by the moderators but a painting seems to be ok...

  10. #180

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    Re: Nude

    "I'm not getting into this...", but I'll give the hornet's nest a whack anyway.

    LOL!

    Vaughn

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